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  1. #1
    Bravo5 is offline Aluminum
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    Default Greaves Cincinnati Mill with toolmakers overarm (#2)

    Got my mill home and snapped some pictures while still on the trailer. The mill shows a surprising low amount of wear. 2nd hand history is that this mill was in the maintenance department of a small manufacturer and that would seem to be consistent with the shop made drawbar wrench, which was marked "Repair Department".

    Appears to be original paint except for vertical head, which has industrial orange spayed over the blue. I have not seen another blue mill, but there is only one layer of paint and one of primer on this machine and if someone painted it they did exceptional job on it--including taking it to the bare metal.

    This will be the second Greaves thread started in the past few weeks, both machines have the toolmakers overarm but there are some differences. This mill has an universal table and double swivel overarm. The other machine has a plain table and single swivel overarm. Since information is lacking, as new Greaves owners we are hoping others will post what they have to begin documenting the models and options.
    Last edited by Bravo5; 11-27-2009 at 07:21 PM.

  2. #2
    Bravo5 is offline Aluminum
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    Pix. General views of mill and vertical head
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails left-front.jpg   left-side.jpg   left-rear.jpg   overarm.jpg   double-swivel.jpg  


  3. #3
    Bravo5 is offline Aluminum
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    Pix. SN's on right front of table and both sides of overarm near the front
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails table-sn.jpg   sn-left-side-arm.jpg   sn-right-side.jpg  

  4. #4
    Bravo5 is offline Aluminum
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    Rapids are foot pedal activated. picture also shows coolant pump. Machine has 3hp on vertical spindle and 5 hp on horizontal spindle. Overarm (3hp) motor is two speed. Both spindles are 50 nmtb. The pendant has controls for both motors with options for jog or run,hi-lo switch for overhead motor, run lights, a reverse switch, a switch for the coolant pump, and an emergency stop. Pendant can be repositioned to work anywhere around the machine. Included are pictures of the speed / feed charts for both the horizontal and vertical spindles.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails rapid-pump.jpg   pendant.jpg   speeds-feeds.jpg   speeds-arm.jpg  
    Last edited by Bravo5; 11-28-2009 at 06:34 AM.

  5. #5
    Bravo5 is offline Aluminum
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    I noted very modest wear. Included are some pictures of ways that still show the original "frosting" very well. Pictures are taken in the typical "high wear" areas. The machine is tight and will clean up extremely nice. I think it is too nice to paint, so it will get solvent and scrotchbrite and go to work.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails coss-slide-ways.jpg   column-ways2.jpg   column-ways.jpg   greavey-mill-002.jpg  

  6. #6
    Bravo5 is offline Aluminum
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    I've always wanted a mill with universal table--now I have one.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails universal-table.jpg  

  7. #7
    Bravo5 is offline Aluminum
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    The mill was free. Well, nearly so. I got a bunch of tooling. 5 horizontal arbors, a box of arbor spacers, tooling including some very nice valenite carbide insert mills, a 5" boring head, a 12 inch rotary table, two sets of putnam quick change tooling and one set of beaver quick change tooling. I got the arbor support but didn't take a picture. I like buying tooling and getting the a mill like this thrown in.

    She will be have a DRO fitted ASAP giving me a mate to the Cincinnati 2ML.

    Machine scales without arbor support, arbors or vice at 4970 lbs.

  8. #8
    Bravo5 is offline Aluminum
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    other specifications I can determine:

    12" x 60" table with 5 t-slots
    feeds on all three axes with rapid traverse
    nearly 20" of travel in z to centerline of horizontal arbor or to vertical head.

  9. #9
    peter is offline Titanium
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    From what I can gather looking at some sales literature. that Greaves head was an option available on many different model Cinci Mills. I maybe wrong, but my take is you all have Cinci 2M, or 2L, or Number/letter model mill with the Greaves option. the swivel table (universal)is another option. The variations are almost endless. Dial speeds or lever speed shifting. High power, hydro power, etc,etc,..

    I think it is just pot luck which combo of options/models are reported by member of this forum. There is also a dedicated Cinci forum on the PM (besides antique), so there is yet another pool of potential PM owned machines. But, I think you are kind of spinning your wheels if you expect to record some definitive number of variation on the cinci mill with or without a Greeves head. I maybe all wrong, but thats my take on it.

    I really do like that head.

  10. #10
    peter is offline Titanium
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    My personal experience on all those neat adjustments, like swivel/universal table or angling the head are just a source of error in doing the work. I never once needed the table twisted off center or the head off dead nuts 90 degree. I have a vertical head attachment, not a Greaves. And the slightest errors in table or head, will mess up your work big time. It is like putting the tail stock off center on the lathe. I never do it, I just my machines straight and squared. Then, I leave it alone for all eternity. Thats been my limited experience. FWIW.

  11. #11
    Bravo5 is offline Aluminum
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    Thanks Peter. I have a Cincinatti vertical head that I use on my 2ML and I don't tilt it very often either.

    I have a helical setup that might be done more efficiently in the horizontal with the universal table. I guess I'll soon know.

    The Greaves is missing a few things I am accustomed to on the cincinatti. I don't see a provision to use a universal dividing head and I don't see an antibacklash adjustment. Interesting your comment about this being a Cincinnati with a Greaves head. It is unlike my Cincinnati 2ml in anyway. My assumption was that Greaves is a different company and they made he entire mill and that it has nothing to do with Cincinnati Milling Machine Company other than being made in the same city.

    Lastly, I debated about where to put this thread---here in antiques or in the "modern" stuff. I simply followed the lead since there was a similar machine here. A moderator is welcome to move the thread if they wish.
    Last edited by Bravo5; 11-27-2009 at 09:57 PM.

  12. #12
    peter is offline Titanium
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    I think this is a good spot for the thread, I was thinking there might be other cinci owners hangin out on the other forum. On the greaves question, I am far from a cinci exert which is why I left myself some weasel room in all my remarks. I have one. Its an old round ram.

    I found a flyer showing the Greaves as an option on the 2MH mill. FWIW. Now is there such a thing as a Greaves Mill? I assume yours was a Cinci, but you know what they say about 'asume'.

    peter
    Last edited by peter; 11-28-2009 at 06:20 AM.

  13. #13
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    mister honey is offline Hot Rolled
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    Peter, please post a scan of the Cincinnati Milling sales literature showing the optional Greaves head.

    Mike

  14. #14
    peter is offline Titanium
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    Good question Mister Mike! I got that all wrong. The Cinci attachment is different. Here is a scan.

    I went back and found a file folder on Greaves, mills and attachments. The toolmaker overarm was apparently sold with the machine and they also offered a different attachment that bolted to the front of the mill. Like svs has. I scanned a couple pages. The origional is a photo copy so the scan is so-so. I have a big fold out flyer, but not easy to scan. They also sold a Mill that looks like any other mill, no head special vertical head.

    It looks like that 90 degree section could be removed and lost? Might explain the two over arm styles. Or might attachment head from scan 4, fit on overarm scan 2?

    Seperate company, I found an envelope return address
    Dated March 19, 1954

    J.A. Fay and Egan Co
    Greaves Machine Tool Division
    Cincinnati 2, Ohio
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails cinci_attachment_resize.jpg   greaves_pg1_resize.jpg   greaves_pg2_resize.jpg   greaves_attachment_resize.jpg  

  15. #15
    Bravo5 is offline Aluminum
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    Thanks Peter. From the brochure now I know what else I need. The quill attachment. SVS commented about 2mt in the vertical spindle--and that it would be if the quill attachment was installed. Probably a snow balls chance in h**l of ever finding this attachment, but if I could get a look at some pictures of one (uninstalled) I believe I could duplicate it.

    There is no other repository of information on the web on the Greaves Mills. I hope others will continue to post what they have and we'll collect it all for future Greaves owners.

    As posted elsewhere, here is the U.S. Army Manual for the Greaves mills.

    http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...reavesmill.pdf

  16. #16
    Bravo5 is offline Aluminum
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter View Post

    I really do like that head.
    Me too. Really heavy. I suspect it will handle more than a Bridgeport type ram mill, especially with the 50 taper tooling. Neat the way it is out of the way and it looks like it will clear almost any horizontal setup without tilting it--allowing it to be trammed in and to quickly change from horizontal to vertical set ups. I have a product that sequences from horizontal to vertical to horizontal with a parts flip and this looks like a real time saver.

    The arbor support will slide on and off the ram with the vertical head set vertically.

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