Thread: Hello, and an new 1898 Porter lathe project

Hello:

After restoring a couple old woodworking machines and sliding quickly down that slope, I realized that if I was going to do good restorations, I would need to do some machining in order to make the parts that are so often missing.

So, with a love of old American Iron I made the naive decision to purchase a metal lathe even though I have no experience with lathes at all. I posted over on OWWM dot com, and was directed to this site. After reviewing the site, I thought that you might appreciate my recent acquisition.

Also, being a complete newbe, I'm going to have dozens of questions to bore you with.

So without further adoo...


After stopping by to take a look at a C-list ad, I couldn't say no, so on Tuesday I loaded up the lathe and drove it to my place in Pflugerville.

Here's a good shot of the lathe about halfway off of the trailer...



Thankfully, the lathe came with a matching countershaft to fit the headstock




The four jaw chuck is massive, it's about 10 inches across


The carriage itself looks fairly well used, but being my first lathe, I have no idea how its supposed to look. Also, I believe that the "top part" of the tool rest is broken, since I can remove it from the rest of the carriage and can't see any way of attaching it. In the picture, it's just sitting on the rest of the carriage.



As you can see from this picture, the cross slide screw is sadly missing



The tailstock is somewhat worrisome. The threaded rod coming out of the back is bent, the handle isn't firmly attached, and the shaft inside the tailstock doesn't seem to want to move.




The lathe came with a center-steady? but it doesn't seem to go with the lathe. the steady has one side with a V groove in it, but the other side is flat. Unfortunately, when placed on the lathe, the flat part sets directly on the V part of the ways. I'll get to the bottom of this one eventually.

Finally, I have dozens of miscellaneous gears, parts, tooling, etc. Most of which I have no idea what it is.



The brass nameplate is in surprisingly good condition though.


This is my first lathe purchase, and I have absolutely no experience with metal lathes. If anyone has any dirty paper on this lathe it would be appreciated.

I'm sure I will bore most people on this, and other forums, figuring out this machine, but I think most of my questions will be resolved as I slowly take it apart, clean it, and put it back together.

I look forward to any advice, comments, concerns, etc. that you may have regarding the lathe, misc tools, etc.

To think that last year I didn't own a single piece of Arn. The slope gets so slippery so fast...

Hi Jason, I think that is a cool project and you came to the right place welcome to the forum I always figured that this type of project would be what I would start with but wondered how I would do it without a lathe or other running Machines Mill, Drill press and so forth however there are a lot of good people on this forum that have similar interests that are willing to help with advice and technical info also I'm sure that you can get hooked up with someone who will be willing to do some machine work to get you on your way toward irreversible old iron disease

James

From American Lathe Builders by Kenneth Cope:

Porter Machine Works, Hatfield, MA
Founded in 1884 by Johnathon E. Porter (1849-1921). Lathe production began in 1886 with the introduction of the Porter-designed HATFIELD lathe. The firm reorganized as Porter & McLeod Tool Co. when Porter's son-in-law, Hugh McLeod (1867-1927) joined him in 1898. McLeod became sole owner when Porter died in 1921.
Lathes offered in 1894 included 16" engine lathes. 1898 production included 14", 16", 18", and 21" engine lathes.

From the photos that accompany the above listing, your lathe looks more like the 1894 version.

Andy

Congratulations on a wise purchase! First of all, if you've rebuilt some other machinery you have an idea of whats involved...and a lathe is no different. Give yourself enough working room and begin taking it apart, photographing everything for future reference when it goes back together. Clean the bed carefully using 0000 steel wool and oil on the ways. Degrease and paint it a dignified color. In other words, restore each piece and reinstall with plenty of oil on all sliding, rotating surfaces. Don't worry about bent or missing cranks/handles...they are still available from various sources and aren't expensive. The "oops" marks on the carriage and compound rest can be filled with JB Weld and dressed to the original contours. Won't hurt a thing and looks good when painted. Rig up that countershaft (nice score by the way) to a motor....any motor....and test all functions. Make sure the entire machine is as level as possible and start making some chips!

There's a wealth of generous knowledge on this board and everyone will help...welcome and enjoy!

Hello Jason;

Welcome to the old iron club! You've certainly found the right place.

As a quick opinion, that's a nice old lathe with some potential historic value, and it's worth putting some work into it to get it restored and running. However, what you have there is going to be a substantial project. There appear to be enough important things missing or damaged, that you're not going to be making chips with it for a long time. On a lathe this old, there's no real chance of finding any parts for it. Broken parts will have to be repaired and missing parts will have to be machined up from scratch. So, you're going to have to get some help from other machinists before you can even start learning how to use this lathe.

I'm not trying to discourage you on this project! (On this forum, we believe that every old machine should be fixed and saved!). But you should recognize that this lathe would be an Advanced Level project for most of us around here.

Not a lot of Porters out there. I've only seen one once before. Get yourself a copy of "Advanced Machine Work" by Robert H. Smith. One on Amazon right now for about $9 with shipping. Everything you need to know is in there.

Interesting to think you have a lathe that came on a horse drawn wagon when it was first delivered.

I know where there is a Mark Flather Shaper that is time concurrent with this lathe.

You did say something about "old iron disease."

Nurse - where's my pills.

Edited: Flather shaper is gone. See? You missed it. A survivor from the American Industrial Revolution and it could have been yours.

Welcome to the clan oh keeper of the flame.
Best,
Joe in NH

Thanks to all for you replys.

Andy, thanks for the help in dating the Lathe. the original seller thought it was from the 1920s, and I suspected that it was significantly older than that, so the vindication is nice.

Bruce, I am aware that it will be a significant investment in time, as well as money, to get this lathe up an running again. Unlike a South Bend, there don't appear to be Porter lathes on falling from the sky. This is a double edged sword. On the one hand, the rarity makes me feel like I'm preserving a piece of history that might otherwise be lost. On the other hand, replacement parts are simply unavailable.

Joe, I've taken your advice and ordered the book from Amazon. I have a feeling that my reading time for this restoration may be significant, but the old addage of wanting to do something right the first time comes to mind.

In my initial post I mentioned that the "tool holder" above the carriage was broken, and simply sitting on the rest of the carriage. Here are some pictures of what I was referring to. After looking at it, it's entirely possible that there is nothing wrong with it, and I simply don't know what I'm looking at. If someone wouldn't mind taking a guess at why I cant' keep these two parts together I'd appreciate it.






When I first saw this lathe, I was worried that the missing cross slide and broken tool holder above the cross slide (not sure what to call it) would make this a good candidate to become a wood lathe. (cringe)

While I need a wood lathe, and the rigidity of this lathe, combined with its size make it a good candidate, I feel more and more like that would be a sad end to a 100 year history of cutting metal. So, as I begin the full restoration of this lathe, I'll keep you all apprised of the progress, as well as ask dozens of questions.

If anyone reading this owns a porter lathe of similar vintage, some dirty paper, or at the very least, pictures of the lathe in running condition would be very helpful.

Thanks again,

Jason

I wondered why the compound slide was bass-ackwards.

There should be two bolts (the design of which I can't tell until the rest of the x-slide is apart), and two nuts that fit into the slots in the compound rest. I have a 9" Logan which employs a similar design, and it's used else where. Tighten the nuts and the CR is sucked down tight to the x-slide. Loosen said nuts and you can swivel the thing 360. It looks like that plate with the holes might be a sort of "spider".

I'm not being facisious (do we have a spell check?) when I say that you're going to need a lathe to fix that lathe. If you have the patience to hang in there with that project (and I for one think it worth while), grab a 9" change gear lathe somewhere for threading and minor milling, and flip it when you're done. Of course, by the time that happens, you won't want to part with the change-gear lathe.

There are some missing parts, bent thingies can be straightened, and this forum will jury you through it.

Using it as a wood lathe wouldn't necessarily bring the end to the lathe's career.

First, it'll get the basics up and running, and second, wood won't hurt anything on that lathe (if you keep it clean).

Then, you can get to the metal munching part running as your knowledge and tools build.

Whew....

It's good to know that the fix is a couple of bolts and nuts (even if specially made). I was concerned that something much more serious was wrong with this particular part of the lathe.

I definitely understand what you're saying about needing a lathe to restore a lathe. For the time being I'll hold off on buying another lathe until I've dismantled and worked on this lathe enough to find out exactly what needs to be fixed. Then I can more fully evaluate what I need.

Thanks again

Edit: Wally, I just saw your second post. You've got a good idea about a potential 2 part restoration (basics first, then more technical metalworking repairs).

Right.

The general cleaning and so-forth will occupy some time, and then you'll probably be focusing on the motive power and head stock.

In a pinch, you can actually get a lot of miles out of hardware store parts and a belt sander.

Stay in touch.

BTW: It took me more than 5 years to get around to this project. It didn't look quite as used as yours, but it was shipped out in '43 to win a war, not preserve its beauty. If a tyro like me can do it, you can too.



There are lots of folks around here who have done better and will be on board.

Jason,

Wally is right. You need two bolts that pass through the iron plate(from the underside) and up into the compound and then two nuts(in the slots on the sides of the compound) to lock the compound down. It looks like the two bolts should be something like a carriage bolt, with a square under the head. This square would fit into the square opening in the plate and keep the bolt from turning when you tighten the nut. I can't tell how thick the iron plate is, but if it is thick enough and if it has notches on the underside next to the square openings, then the bolts could be L shaped( a squared end and bent at 90 deg.). You might look in your box of parts. You might have them. I also have a Porter lathe(earlier than yours). It does not have a compound. It has an elevated tool rest.

Rob

In order to give any worthwhile kibitzing, I, for one, need lots of photos. If it were a SBL, I could do it in my sleep.

The better that observers understand the component parts that you're dealing with, the crisper will be the responses you receive.

This is a simple, intelligently designed and constructed lathe that you're facing. I wish it had been my first restoration.

Jason,

There are a few things you might want to consider before going the "mother of all heavy wood lathes" route.

Your lathe was designed to turn waaay too slow for efficient wood turning. I don't know what your wood turning experience is, but if you've done some, then the slow speed will be apparent from the get-go. If you don't have a lot of wood turning experience then you probably won't be able to learn how to properly hold and manipulate the turning tool which will require you to re-learn how to turn wood once you get addicted and decide to get a lathe which was designed for wood turning.

The other big drawback is that metal lathes are leaky. You have to keep the spindle bearings oiled. There is no oil recovery system on the lathe. It just runs out on the ground and on the back of chuck/faceplate and eventually the workpiece. If the workpiece is wood then your project will get turned and finished in the same process - as long as you are happy with a spindle oil finish. Might inpart an interesting flavor to your salad bowls. Also if you use the carriage to support a wood turning tool rest then the bedways will need to be oiled as well further adding to the mess.

Not trying to be a big downer for your plans. I just want you to be aware of the potential pitfalls of using a metal lathe to turn wood. If it were my project I think I would pursue making it a metal lathe from the start.

Now you just need to find an old wood lathe to restore - along with the change-gear lathe - oh and don't forget to pick up milling machine to help make parts for the metal lathe - oh yeah and a tool and cutter grinder to keep the milling cutters sharp- and ....

Good luck with your project,

Pat Black

Excellent post Patrick. You made many points that are right on in my book. From what I see you have an incredible chunk of iron. Yes it will not be a couple of spray bombs and a can of penetrating oil, but what a solid foundation to begin with. You are intelligent enough to say you don't know where to begin and you have no prior experience, in my book that puts you a head of a lot of people who "think" they do. That is just an awesome lathe.

Glad Patrick said what he did, not just for practical reasons which are right on, but for moral and social correctness too. You have enough of a foundation to build or rebuild a fantastic pc of American history to put this old gal back in business, it would be sacrilegious to many of us to turn this into anything other then what it was designed to be. Of course it is your money, labor, housing and headaches and it is easy to tell others what to do with their time and money, I hope you get my drift. If you tire of it, I would sell it to some other "junkie" out here and buy what ever you felt you needed to replace it.

This is a great place to get advise and encouragement on projects like yours, sometimes I feel we should just have a little side bar with our own "Dear Abby" column.

Dear Abby: I have been contemplating buying a ............{fill in the blank}, but my friends think I am nuts. It is rusty and old, but I don't care. What should I do? I don't want to reveal my real name as I am so embarrassed, and live in a small town, so just call me "Junkie".

Answer: Dear Junkie, to heck with everybody else, you must learn to not care what others think of your deepest desires. If you want it, go for it. Old and rusty doesn't mean you can't learn to fix it and use it. As long as you have cheese and macaroni in the cupboards so the kids can eat a nutritious meal, go for it! As we age we need more iron. Love Abby.

Cheers, John.

Hi Jason,

I just acquired a Porter metal lathe myself from the Crescent Planning Mill Auction in St Louis. I hope you have your running by now. I would like to compare notes on our lathes.

Allen