Hendey 12" x 6' needs saving in Port Jervis NY
Ladies & Gents,
I just looked at, and very nearly purchased, a Hendey tie-bar conehead 12" swing by 6' bed. This needs saving - the owner used the S-word !
It has a chip pan and a taper attachment. There is a PILE of tooling, including three chucks, a faceplate, assorted toolholders and what APPEARS to be an adapter for 5NS collets. A number of 5NS are in the pile. The pile includes what looks like 30 taper mill tooling also.
Has a nice "Drive-All" type of arrangement and a handsome 3ph 3HP motor & drum switch. The motor is considerably newer than the lathe, but still from the "golden era" of electric motor building. Good belts.
The ways look good, no obvious wear or grooves. The spindle turned smoothly with even friction and no palpable play. (Adjustable conical bronze bearings, in any case.)
I woulda bought it except the bull gear is missing every other tooth for about half its diameter, in other words about 1/4 of the teeth, give or take. The mating back gear is only half there. The lathe appearred functional except for the back gears.
There might MAYBE be a piece missing. Right below the left-side spindle gear, which is intact but somewhat worn, the gear that meshes with it has a conical babbit protrusion, and I surmise something might have possibly maybe mounted on this. It might have had something to do with reversing the feed. I got photos of this which I will try to post.
The contact is Bill at (845) 856-6646. DROP MY NAME.
Save or scrap?
Posting some images of the lathe and the gear damage will make it easier to find a home for this lathe. Did you happen to write down the serial #?
Only took two photos
I took only two cell phone photos. I was trying to record thegear right below the gear on the outboard end of the spindle. This gear had a conical projection on its hub. made of babbit.
At the time, I could not understand the purpose of the conical projection. I have since learned that it is a sort of handle used to move the gear on its shaft. This gear slides in and out to engage/disengage the feeding/threading gear train.
(It is NOT part of the feed reverse.)
The photos do show that the lathe is not rusty and has fairly fresh gray paint. I thought all the current paintjob needs is a wipedown with mineral spirits and a touch-up.
Hendeyman wrote me a PM saying the lathe was made in 1911, and that the chip pan and taper attachment were originally shipped with the lathe.
If someone wants to make a move on this lathe, I'd be willing to work on the gears. The back gear should be a simple replacement job, while the bull gear may need a segment or ring of new teeth if an all out replacement isn't feasible.
JRR, it's obvious that help exists to help repair this lathe. I had also mentioned that parts machines have surfaced as well: Big Blu, being the most recent; the machine formerly owned by the neighbor of Tom Wheels; Jim Boggs found one; the chuck and taper attachment for the Ag. museum lathe came from a generous donor in the West. So it's really up to you. How badly do you want a Hendey? How often will you run it in it's lowest speeds, that lack of back gears is a deal breaker?
Feed reverse is the lever that rides on the rod below the leadscrew.
Info on this lathe from Hendeyman
I'm taking the liberty of posting the information about this lathe that Hendeyman sent to me in a PM.
"Very little information has remained regarding Hendey lathe #
13156, but here is what I could find. It is a 12 x 6 cone head
model that was shipped with a taper attachment and an oil pan.
It was built the middle of December 1911 and the original owner
was the Baltimore Tube Company. At a later date it was owned
by a company called Titeflex, Inc., no address or city was given.
No patterns or parts have survived for this lathe, but I do have
all of the drawings for it. the 1904 parts book, while featuring
the compound box and not the tie bar headstock, will work very
well for parts identification. The 1918 operator's book posted at
the top of the Antique Forum should answer all of your questions
about running the lathe. If I can be of further help, let me know."
<JRR again here:> This perfectly matches the lathe as I observed it.
This older tiebar Hendey does not have the word "Hendey" cast into the tiebar.
Nor does it have the size cast into the front of the bed. I would have expected it to have 12 x 6 cast in raised letters just to the right of where the gearbox hangs, but it is not there.
The machine has a classy embossed brass Manning Maxwell and Moore dealer tag on the right leg.
Isn't ANYONE interested in buying this imperiled lathe ?
Parts interchange question.
Are some of the parts from a 12x6 Hendey the same as those on a 14x6 of the same age?? I have a 14x 6 that has had a very rough life. I wonder of my 14x6 backgears would fit the 12x6? If so I might shift my attention to the 12x6 machine.
Look at post #3 in this thread:
Also, maybe Hendeyman knows a specific answer to this question.
JRR, I thought you were that person??
Originally Posted by SouthBendModel34
Seems that several PM'ers are ready to dive in and help you retrieve it and repair the gear damage. If you look at Jim Boggs most recent thread, he posted an image of the pile of spare parts he has accumulated, including many of the headstock gears.
If you consider the price for this lathe to be within your budget, then buy it and stop
worrying about a few brokenparts. If a replacement face gear (Hendey for bull gear) is
not easily obtainable, then as Finegrain has suggested, ring it and cut new teeth. The
back gear and pinion shaft is another easy fix. The intermediate gear damage is another
simple repair. Don't pass up a chance get a nice lathe at a fair price, remember, if you
needed a complete taper attachment for a 1911 cone head you would most likely pay
alot more for that single item than you are for the whole lathe. There are enough folks
on this forum that can help you get this lathe up and running. Go for it.
Many parts on the 12 inch and 14 inch cone heads do not interchange, only a few do.
Regarding the back gear and pinion assembly, the gears are a different DP and won't fit.
Also, changes were made in1918 and 1922, so many of these parts will not fit a 1911
model lathe. This becomes more of a problem for the pre 1899 lathe with the straight
bearing boxes. If you have a chance to get a part off another lathe, send me the serial
number of the lathe and I will check the drawings to see if they will interchange.
As I have posted before, the HENDEY name first appears cast into the tie bar in the 1923 catalog. The drawings show that this change occurred at an earlier date, but the
catalog photograph wasn't change for several years. Terry of Bellindustries has a 1919
cone head that has a HENDEY tie bar, which would indicate that this style of tie bar
was most likely part of the 1918 redesign program. To date, I am unaware of any lathe
built prior to 1919 that uses this style of tie bar.
Well, reggie_obie, it turns out that I AM that person who's going to adopt this lathe. The short version is that it is going to be delivered to my driveway on a rollback.
This thread, plus the conversation we had the other day over coffee, convinced me that the problems are fixable.
You can look forward to having coffee again, this time as we tinker with this old Hendey ! (You are the local expert of conehead tiebar Hendeys, having led the effort that put the one in the NJ Museum of Agriculture ! )
Finegrain, I may find that I don't need the backgears, but I certainly thank you for putting that offer on the table because it showed that with enough gumption and ingenuiuty, the bull gear is fixable. Let me see what I find when I have a chance to expose the gear. Just out of curiousity, if it was decided to install an entire new ring of teeth, how would you remove the old teeth ? Rough it with a grinder and then turn the remaining center round with carbide ???
Assuming it's CI and not something hard, I'd use a stout negative rake insert to cut the old teeth off. Yes, it's a super-interrupted cut, but it works.
Originally Posted by SouthBendModel34
Safe at Home!
This lathe is now resting comfortably under a tarp in my driveway and will be moved into the garage over the holiday weekend. The delivery by roll-back flatbed was uneventful. All the stars seemed to align on this deal; the seller of the lathe owns a roll-back flatbed ! He was ready willing and able to deliver it for a very reasonable fee. I think he wanted to see his grandfather's lathe go to a good home.
To quote the late Phil Rizzuto: "Safe at Home!"
It's been moved indoors.
This Hendey is now indoors in my unheated garage. It spent three rainy days under a tied-down tarp without any apparent troubles.
I've not been able to find LPS-3 in local (central NJ) stores as yet: Does anyone know of a local source? In meantime, I squirted the Hendey with a product from ACE Hardware, which after smelling it, I think is, alas, WD-40 sold under a house brand.
The motor and transmission have been re-mounted.
There was some concern that the pivot pin for the overhead motor drive might be MIA, but it was found in among the asst. tooling that came with the lathe. All other bolts which had been removed to dismount the motor and transmission were found in their respective holes - I'd say the seller did a very thoughtful job of removing the motor and transmission for transport.
Next question is: What sort of lubricant goes into the "drive-all" transmission ? She leaked some while on her side.
Will ISO 32 do for the spindle ?
No fear of me running her without proper lubrication - there are several things that have to be done before I can really play with this lathe.
Drive-all or is it a Uni-drive gearbox? If it's a Uni-drive, the input and output seals are probably worn as well. Replace them at the same time you drain and replace the gear lube (Mobilegear 629) in the box. RTV blue works fine to seal the cover back onto the gearbox.
You will have to make a visit to look at it someday soon. The gearbox has only one shift lever - that might make it a Unidrive? (As I think about it, I vaguely recall the Drive-All is an adaptation of a Ford auto transmission design, and thus has two shift levers.)
Got any record of the part numbers for the replacement seals ? That would be an appropriate thing to post on PM.
I haven't been paying attention but the Drive-All's that I have (three of them) all have only one lever, however the one lever--which has both a left and right position--has an in and out position. The in and out combined with the right and left makes four speeds out of the box.
I haven't changed any oils lately (two of three Drive-All machines are stored) but I think I might have used 90 weight 'gear oil' in them (or maybe later it was called 90/140). I doubt if anyone told me what to do, I just picked a likely culprit and it seems to work.
Good luck with your new lathe.
That's a Drive-all. From their website:
Before starting, fill through plug on top of unit with MOBILGEAR 626 or an equivalent.
Where heavy loads or shock conditions prevail MOBILGEAR 630 should be substituted. In case of doubt, MOBILGEAR 630 will give a considerably higher margin of safety.
This lubricant should be changed after the first 100 hours, flushing the case out with light flushing oil. Thereafter, a change of oil every 1000 hours should be made unless there are unusual temperature conditions combined with intermittent high loads. A change of oil may then be necessary at one or three-month intervals.
Since the gearbox vents to open air and you don't know how much moisture has condenced inside the case, draining the old lube and flushing out the case is cheap insurance. You can cross refernce the seals and replace them at the same time.
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