Hendey 14x8 lathe information needed
I just purchased a Hendey 14x8 - per the bed, believe this means 8 feet. It is an EBM Enclosed Belt Motor Driven Engine Lathe type with motor underneath the ways. It is not a belt though, it is a chain to drive it. It came with 2EA 4-jaw chucks and collet closer but no other tooling and I am looking for the following information in order to get started:
Serial number on the lathe is 28393.
It has a 2HP 3-PH motor which does not appear to be the stock motor because someone did a shoddy job of blocking it up to fit. What size motor should it take, and if I wanted to swap to single phase what size should it be?
Spindle is 2-1/4" OD, 6 TPI.
What type of taper does the spindle have and where can I get center to fit?
I have the adapter for the current chucks as well as an adapter which appears to be for a 3-jaw chuck, it has 3 bolt holes on approx 3-7/8" dia and a 4-3/4" OD on the plate (to fit the missing chuck back). Any idea where I could get a 3-jaw chuck to match?
How do I get setup for collets? I understand I need a collet adapter for the spindle and set of collets, is there specificaitons or drawing on the adapter to make one, or where can it and the collets be found?
The end of the tailstock spindle is 15/16" tapering back about 8". What type of taper does the tailstock spindle have and where can I get tooling (centers, etc) to match?
If there is anyone with Hendey steady or follow rests for sale to fit this 14x8 lathe, I am looking for parts.
Also, the two gearshift levers on the lower transmission are in poor shape if anyone has these as well I would be interested.
I have the bottom of a steady rest which came with the machine, it does not fit though, appears to be for a smaller machine but does match the type of steady rest for hendey's by the picture in their manual. If anyone has need for this I would be happy to trade for anything to fit my machine. Otherwise I am thinking of modifying it to fit but hate to reconfigure original equipment.
I already have the manuals for the machine, but if there is any other literature pertainent, especially the specifications on the machine I would appreciate it. The manuals appear to be more for salesmanship and use of attachments than for the basic operation of the machine.
Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.
Welcome to the PM forums Nick.You HAVE come to the right place for info.We have quite a few members that own these fine machines with a lot of knowledge for you.I;m sure one of these will come along very soon to answer most of your questions. A lot of these records have survived the wrath of time.Our member Hendeyman has, I believe what remains of these records and is very willing to help a fellow member out.I too own and run one of these fine machines (1923 tie bar) but hesitate to give much info as I still consider myself far from an authority. It is truly amazing how accurate an 87 year old piece of equipment can be if the time is spent to learn all it's quirks."Made in America" I think that says it all.Good luck with your quest and come back often as this is the place to be for anything from CNC to Antique machines.
Welcome to the forum:
You have an ECM.
Here is an earlier thread - possibly yours is 4 1/2 Morse Hendey in spindle and 2 1/2 Morse Hendey in tail stock. Neither of these are very common.
Hendey 14x6 Morse-Hendey 2 1/2 taper?
Collets I suppose would be the Hendey #2 set with the closer sleeve that fits your spindle. You have but 1 3/16" thru bore in spindle. These will be something you have to look for, not like they were for sale everyday.
Unless you find a similar vintage Hendey, same size, with a chuck back plate, you won't be likely to find that item either, so everybody that really wants one just makes one to fit their lathe.
Your lathe dates from about 1930 and weighs about 3420.
Welcome to the forum! You've come to the right place for help with your Hendey. I've got a 1942 conehead, and everyone here has helped me out a lot.
I may have a steady rest available for your lathe. I have two, and 1 fits my 14" perfectly, and the other is just a wee bit off (for my bed). It may work for you.
PM me with measurements, and I'll check it out. I'll take a picture of it with measurements if you're interested. In the PM, give me your email address.
There are some 2H collets on Fleabay right now: 2H Hendey #2 Collets 23 Total USA made NICE SET! *NR - eBay (item 320554399482 end time Jul-07-10 08:06:35 PDT)
You will still need to turn you own spindle adapter. No affiliation to seller.
Appreciate the info
Thanks for all who contributed, if anyone has more definite specs on the machine, that would be helpful. I want to be sure I am looking for the right equipment.
The 2H collets for sale are good, but from what I have been able to find on this size 1-15/16 ID spindle, it takes 3H collets, let me know if I am wrong becuase the collet set looks good. The seller doesn't say what size the threads are on the collets so I can't cross reference to my closer from the posting.
From what I can find searching the forum it appears to be a 3H collet spindle, and tailstock a possible 3MT (3 Morse Taper?). However, need to confirm.
Sounds like most of the inital work will be in making tools so the machine is usable!
John, thanks for that info as well, saw quite a few references to those odd sizes. Does anyone have specifications or drawings on what those tapers are (and/or a drawing on a collet adapter)?
My reference on the Hendey collets I found by searching online, it has a whole selection of collet sizes and the specs on them (size, dia, thread, etc) listed by type and mfg, and I just found the one with draw in threading to match my closer, and it was a 3H. Wanted to attach but the file is too big. If you need it PM me and I will send.
Hendeyman shared this at one time. We need an easier way to find it. I found by Search This Forum and Hendey taper.
Drawings :: Hendey Spindle Sleeve picture by jrollett - Photobucket
You should measure the thru hole in the spindle where the draw tube would slide through. If it measures between 1-7/32" to 1-1/4" it will take the 3H collets or the 2H collets depending on the draw tube and the spindle sleeve. If as John mentioned you have 1-3/16" through hole then it's 2H. I have a 1922 ECM and it has a 1-7/32" thru. hole. Did you get a sleeve for the spindle with the machine?
Spindle & Collet Closer
Measured the thru hole, 1-7/32 (on closer side). The closer is approx 1-1/16 ID with 20 TPI, per all the data I've been able to drag together that's a 3H collet, can you confirm?
Is it possible or recommendable to thread a small reducer to fit into the closer and use the 2H collets?
My machine did not come with the collet closer adapter, am still looking for one, or for any type of rough drawing, dimensions on how to make one.
Thanks for the info so far!
I.E., you have draw tube but not closer. Closer I think is flanged, has taper for spindle and I.D. features to suit collet. 3H has 1.375 dia. big end, 1.125 body dia, and 1.062-20 OD thread. Angle of closing cone up front is 10 degrees off C/L. Collet is 4.437 long less curve on nose. Largest hole through threaded area and nose is .875. No info on thread length is given.
(Reference The Cataract Precision Bench Lathe and Attachments)
I.E. closer needs to be short enough so draw tube can screw on to collet.
More productive would be to acquire a Hardinge Sjogren collet chuck with a flat back and make a back plate for it. These are available from 5C to 22 J collets.
John is correct on the 3H collet size. If you ask around you may find someone with an extra draw tube for the 2H collets that will fit the spindle. I have one for the 2H and the 3H. You could also make one as you do have a lathe with threading capability's. I'm sure Hendeyman will come across this thread soon and can set you up with the original prints and a little history on your lathe.
It appears the tailstock has a #3 MT, I found some and tried them, they seem to fit very snugly and are long enough to be backed out by fully retracting the spindle.
Still not for sure on what the headstock takes, quite a bit larger than a 3MT, but have 4 MT adapter and it is too large. 3-1/2 Hendey Morse?
Jeff, I sent you messages (forum was acting up and I got cut off while sending) about the steady rest but haven't heard back, post on this thread if the messages haven't gotten to you, and I'll try again.
Also, does anyone know if the compound rest has a powered cross feed for cutting tapers? The manuals seem to say this model does, but I haven't figured out how to engage.
Finally, any suggestions on quick change tool post suitable and the right size for this machine?
quick change tool post suitable
You could engage feeds both at the same time and cut some wierd angles in combination with taper attachment - that is what the manual talks about.
No power on any of the compounds that I am aware of.
Most of them seem to have had the taper attachment for ordinary taper work.
Drawing linked above clearly states the 14 had the 4 1/2 taper. #4 Morse is close to 1 1/4 on big end. How big is big end of taper in spindle?
Hendey lathe #28393 is a 14 x 8 ECM Model (Enclosed Chain Motor Drive). It was shipped
with a Compound Rest, an Oil Pan, a Taper Attachment and a set of #3 Collets. The
original owner was the Noble Machinery Company, New York City. They bought eight ECM
during this period. I have omitted the date of manufacture for the moment.
John Oder listed the date that your lathe was built as 1930 and normally that would be correct, actually December 1930. With the Stock Market crash, it seems that some in-
ventory was not sold until a later date. Keep in mind that the ECM went out of production in 1929, in fact the last price list that featured this lathe is dated June 1,
1929 and the selling price was $2134.00. It is interesting to note that your lathe was
sold on August 14, 1933 and ECM #28394 was sold on July 14, 1933. It seems that all
of the ECMs purchased by Noble were during July and August 1933 and may have been
an inventory clearance sale.
The weight that John quoted is correct from the description you provided, but should be
87lbs heavier because of the Taper Attachment. The center bushing is a Morse-Hendey
#4-1/2 and the centers are a Morse-Hendey #2-1/2, as he has stated.
There are six main pieces of literature that were produced for the EBM/ECM lathes,
they are: (1) the original 1922 EBM Operator's Manual (16pages), (2)an abridged EBM
Operator's Manual (4 pages), (3) the 1922 EBM Parts Book, (4) the 1922 EBM Sales
Brochure, (5) the 1924 EBM Sales Brochure introducing the silent chain drive, (6) a circa
1925 ECM Sales Brochure. The Sales Brochures were produced for each size of EBM/ECM
The 1922 EBM Parts Book will cover almost every part that was used on the ECMs. All of
the drawings for the EBM/ECM lathes have survived.
A two to three HP motor is recommend for your size of ECM, since the lathe starts un-
loaded, a single phase capacitance start motor should work fine. For single phase use
the larger HP.
For the Drawing-in Attachment keep in mind that a knock out rod will be required. If you
make your own closer it is recommended that it be hardened and ground because of the
severe service associated with drawing-in the collets.
Thanks for the post. It appears I am missing the taper attachment and set of #3 collets.
Is the Morse-Hendey 4-1/2 equivalet to any current standard size? I found the sleeve drawing on the forum to adapt the spindle taper to the tailstock taper.
You say the centers are Morse-Hendey 2-1/2, but a #3 MT seems to fit, is that equivalent or was it modified later?
Do you have a drawing of the drawing in or closer attachment so I have something to go by to make one?
I understand I will need a knockout rod, I I found a drawing of the knockout rod through the forum, but some of the dimensions are illegible, so if anyone has a better copy that would be appreciated.
Is there anywhere I can get the parts list/etc for the EBM? I have the operator's manuals which cover the older belt drive and attachments. Since I don't have any attachments they aren't too useful.
If anyone has Hendey or equivalent Hardinge #3 collets for sale, let me know I would be intersted.
In answer to your question John, the spindle end is 1-15/32" ID.
Close to being just right for 4 1/2 taper.
In answer to your question John, the spindle end is 1-15/32" ID.
I.E., matching closely the "B" dimension of 1 1/2" listed here:
Drawings :: Hendey Spindle Sleeve picture by jrollett - Photobucket
Good chance you were trying a 5MT in it, not a 4MT
You're probably right, no marks on the adapter but must be 5MT. I'm getting an adapter made now for adapting from a 4-1/2 Hendey-Morse outside to a 3MT inside per the drawing shown.
I would really like to get the headstock collet adapter, or closer, drawing so I can have that made at the same time. Everyone talks about it but haven't seen any drawings (which is what i really need).
I have been gone for six weeks and have been trying to catch up on all the technical
questions posted in the forum and PMs. While digging through all of this correspondence,
my print/fax decided to die. I am in the process of installing a new unit and hopefully
will be in a position continue clearing the PMs and sending off small drawings. If you will
send me a fax number, I will send you a copy of the closer. You also wanted a more
distinct drawing of the knock out rod, I will send that out.
I sent you my fax number, but in case you didn't get, it is 770-487-0005.
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