07-03-2012, 07:26 AM
Little later 4" bar machine here if someone is looking for one left coast.
Lucas #42 Boring Mill
07-08-2012, 02:08 PM
Birthday party was a hot one . . .
The Lucas got belted up and made chips for its 100th birthday party:
Because it was the first time this old gentleman has run in years, maybe decades, I did not make him work very hard. The line boring demonstration on an old transmission case went well, but was not very dramatic. The little pile of cast iron chips is the first step in doing more major operations such as cylinder boring and facing and other operations to support Tuckahoe's many engines.
I had a little trouble with belt tracking, but this is probably related to the 24" wooden pulley I did not have time to true up. (I did true and crown all of the cast iron pulleys.) The South Bend in the background has riser blocks and will swing 30" so that will be easy to do later. I also had an occasional bit of adjacent gears clashing, so I will have to add a few spacer washers to control axial float a little better. All in all, it was a good run for the Lucas, even if the pile of chips was not very big:
I was asked if this thread would now be ending -- it will go on for a while so I can document the various pieces of tooling I intend to fabricate over the next year, so stay tuned . . .
P.S.: Thanks to all of you who encouraged me over the last four years -- this was a very necessary part of keeping this project moving. I will also be turning attention to getting our Fellows gear shaper on line. This allows me to at least contemplate making all new gears for the transmission to work with the new one made by Finegrain.
07-08-2012, 02:20 PM
Congratulations Archie, first start up is always nerve wracking, even on a new machine. You must be thrilled to actually be cutting metal. I'm getting on a bit now but I've never actually run a belt driven machine. All the ones I worked on had their own motors. Regards and three cheers from this side of the lake, Tyrone
07-08-2012, 02:52 PM
Your Lucas project turned out fantastic. Have you heard anything on the early Lucas I donated to the other group? I don't suspect there was much to getting it cutting other than working around the lack of a gearbox.
07-08-2012, 03:37 PM
Thanks . . . I had a lot more fun working on the mill than on the belt drive system. It is my foolishness (life-long) to do the startup during a show -- it must have something to do with my approach to being a teacher. At least I had the sense to not start out with a heavy cutting operation. I got grief from my fellow volunteers for massively over-oiling everything, but I did not want any hot bearings. I used my infra-red thermometer and the hottest bearing was the main input bearing. I thought 116 degrees was high until I remembered that the whole shop was pushing 100. I have brought my thermometer to every show and no one has complained about being able to monitor the line-shaft & counter-shaft bearings from floor level, even though no old-time line-shaft operation had such a luxury. One of the new countershafts on another machine did have one bearing running at 140 degrees, but that was not enough to shut it down.
I did not see any of the Rough & Tumble guys, but the weather was hot enough to have scared away most folks that were north of the Mason-Dixon line. There were a number of southerners who up to cool off . . .
07-08-2012, 06:04 PM
Man was the show ever hot! I was working the Smith & Mills shaper, tending the grinder, general scurrying... Archie's machine was the big draw- he also had one of the two room fans.
When putting a machine on the lineshaft sometimes it seems as if it goes on no fuss no muss, the belts track and everything is awesome, then the other times the belts give nothing but trouble.
The S&M and grinder lineshaft stuff only had minor bugs- belt tension, shifter positioning etc.. but the belting for the Lucas was Having Issues. We got the countershaft aligned to the main lineshaft, belt tension is good but the belt kept walking off. Personally I'm not convinced its a simple crown issue; we had belt tracking problem w/ the prime mover a couple years ago which looked acted and smelled like a crown problem right out of the textbook and it turned out to be the old belt we were using. The Lucas belts are new so the tracking issues are a cipher to me. Wouldn't be surprised if putting a belt shifter fork up there would be enough to keep the belt in line- several other machines have belts that creep if the shifter forks allow it.
07-08-2012, 06:35 PM
The Lucas had a big fan . . .
You are correct on all accounts:
o That fan was the draw. Many people listened to me go through several repeats of the Lucas story, just so they could stand in the blast of the fan. I ended up teasing many of them, saying: "I know why you are standing in that spot!" I got a grin every time. The Lucas was pretty, but the fan was an oasis.
o The tracking problem is very minor. With the Lucas clutch free, the new belt would run half on the fast pulley and half on the free. Because it is not possible to ease in a cast iron cone clutch smoothly, the belt would go right off the pulleys. If I had someone hold a stick lightly against the belt during my clutch engagement, the stick could be removed and I could run the Lucas as long as I wished. The problem could be a small mis-alignment in the splice -- it takes a sudden jump in time with the time it takes the belt to go one trip around the pulleys. The vertical belt to the Lucas runs perfectly and I trued and crowned its pulleys exactly the same way as the fast and free pulleys. Anyway, it will be much easier to deal with on a cool day.
The countershaft will have forks by the time I get the cone pulley fabricated for the Fellows. This pulley will be mounted on the other end of the Lucas countershaft, explaining:
o The reason that both belts in the pic above are crossed -- reversing the rotation (at the countershaft) to what the Fellows requires and then reversing it again for what the Lucas requires. I am assuming that crossing belts on a cone pulley pair is not desirable, but would welcome input based on experience.
o The need for a fast and free pulley system. This would not be necessary for the Lucas with its clutch and I did not have time to fabricate the shifter, hoping that the belt would behave itself for the show. I plan to drop off the Fellows belt to "park" it on a hook when it is not being used. Setups on the Fellows will not ever be likely to be quick jobs, while a lot of the Lucas jobs will involve a simple operation.
Last edited by Archie Cheda; 07-08-2012 at 06:37 PM.
Reason: punctuation . . .
07-10-2012, 08:11 AM
Walter, one of the Rough & Tumble guys stopped by on Sunday - they are making progress on their shop - working on the structure to support the lineshaft. Sounds like it will be several months before any machinery is moved into place.
Originally Posted by Walter A
07-10-2012, 08:20 AM
Thanks for the update Jeff. I sure hope they get it installed and running. It was an operational machine when I gave it to them.
Originally Posted by Jeff_G
07-21-2012, 05:53 PM
From 'Modern Shop Practice'
Printed by the 'American Technical Society' copy write dates are from 1902 to 1937.
09-03-2012, 01:29 PM
Accessorizing . . .
Thanks for the diagram -- it will get absorbed into the literature we display next to the machines during our annual show each July. The terms are generic, for example Lucas literature refers to the table as the "platen", but I am certain most machinists would use the term that is general to mills, expecting to find a platen on a printing press.
Here is a pic of the rotary table I just fetched home from Hephaestus72:
Actually the part in the pic is portion of a real "boat-anchor" of a 24" rotary table that probably was integral to a HBM. I toyed briefly with using the whole thing, it would not have achieved my goal of representing the Lucas as it was a hundred years ago, so I am sticking with "plan A" and just using the table and scrapping the rest. The iron will not cover my gas costs hauling it from IN to MD, but it turns out that the bronze worm-wheel weighs 90#, easing the finances quite a bit. I'll still need to take a cleanup cut, but Tuckahoe's shop includes a South Bend that will wing 30" and if it is tied up, I can always use our 36" Bullard.
P.S.: The large cone pulley is for our large pulley lathe -- it is passing through my place on its way to getting re-united with the lathe at Tuckahoe. I am in the process of fabricating a replacement cone pulley for our Fellows gear shaper -- it is a shame when machines get separated from their countershaft, but I suppose it happens more often than not.
09-03-2012, 04:43 PM
Thanks Archie, I'm honered or rather my Grandfather is. That came out of one of his machinists books. He finished his apprenticeship at Skoda prior to WWI. Then drafted into the Austrian army and trained in Vienna prior to attachment to a Jaeger unit.
Originally Posted by Archie Cheda
I'll see if my daughter can clean up the watermark. She does a lot of photography/photoshop.
I saw Mike in Dwight, Illinois on Friday. Picked up the B & S #2 universal he had. The 3b is still inside waiting for a home.
09-03-2012, 05:10 PM
Skoda had a great reputation for machine tool building, he must have had a story or two to tell. Regards Tyrone.
Originally Posted by jhruska
09-03-2012, 06:41 PM
There are some Skoda photos on one of the computers, inside the shop and a huge mortar on a cassion, but for another thread.
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
The best stories he told were those during and after WWI. Tough times but survived with the unit intact as they followed the Russians to the Black Sea. and then finished on the Italian front. Later came to the States and worked Tool and Die with Ford, usually running a DeVlieg.
10-28-2012, 03:51 PM
Making chips on a real part . . .
Well, the annual show is long over and it is time for the Lucas to start earning its keep. The large block of cast iron is on its way to becoming the core of a device to face the head gasket surface of the cylinders of large stationary engines that cannot be easily moved to a machine tool -- the tool will go to the engine. A central bore needs counterbores for anti-friction bearings and the job yesterday was to face the an end surface to be place against the table for the boring job. Before the Lucas was on line, an attempt was made to do the setup in a lathe, but the bore needs to be perpendicular with the (shiny) guide rods installed in the block and this setup was not an easy one to do on a lathe.
The setup is fairly self-explanitory, using a planer tool-holder strapped to the Lucas' spindle sleeve as a fly-cutter. Dialing in on the rod was easy with an indicator on a mag base on the spindle. The bad news is that with only a single cutting edge and limited tool rigidity, it took several hours of machining time. The good news is that I got to run the Lucas for several hours . . . the power table (platen) feed worked fine and everything ran cool.
Now that the Lucas is operational, my part-time task for a year or more will be to make tooling. This includes the rotary table pictured above and also a number of pieces of tooling that will bolt to the spindle sleeve -- a face mill and a boring/facing head for starts. I would be interested in any lathe or mill tooling that can be adapted to the spindle sleeve's end which has a 6" OD reference diameter and a 4-1/2" bolt circle with the usual 4 bolt holes. Specifically I would be interested in any sort of insert-holding (HSS rather than carbide) face mill and a large 4-jaw universal chuck (body only) that could be the basis of a boring/facing head. This is not a rush project . . .
10-30-2012, 06:03 PM
That's an amazing machine thanks for sharing, I hope all is well with you and the machines at Tuckahoe.
10-30-2012, 06:23 PM
Good looking machine you've got there! I had a sister unit to yours this summer. Is my mind or the camera playing tricks on my failing eyes or is rust creeping in on the table already? Darned humid east coast air.
10-31-2012, 06:04 PM
Patina or rust ? ? ?
I thought the same thing when I posted the pic -- I will take a close look when I next visit Tuckahoe, but I know that the recently-planed top surface of the table (platen) has always been oiled. The front vertical surfaces was not planed, so some of the left-over rust may be tinting the oil. Bottom line: there should not be any new rust as there has always been a lot of oil on all the surfaces.
P.S.: Another possibility is the color of wood paneling of the walls & ceiling of the Tuckahoe Machine Shop Museum may be picked up by the rusty-looking surfaces. The orange top surface of the freshly-painted cross-feed screw bracket supports this line of thought. More & more I find that most rust looks worse in pictures than it really is.
10-31-2012, 10:29 PM
Amazing thread, amazing machine, mostly just amazing perseverence and great craftsmanship! Thanks for documenting and posting it.
11-01-2012, 09:17 AM
Turnabout . . .
No more amazing than the body of your work. (For readers: I have visited Stephen's shop for a complete tour.)
Having long experience with myself, I am impressed that I managed to persevere through the Lucas project, but I would credit two forces outside myself to explain why my other hobby projects do not show as much perseverance, although I am willing to take credit for actually providing the muscle. The two forces are:
o The simple fact that the Lucas belongs to the Tuckahoe Machine Shop Museum.
o My choice of posting the story in real time on the PM forum.
While I did take a long time (four years) I found that no matter what distractions came along, the fact that all of you were following along and encouraging me always brought me back to work. Now that the Lucas is running, the pressure of actual jobs for it will drive the work of finding and making tooling. I hope that this phase will be of equal interest.