My 40x293 Hendey

This is a continuation of an older thread started by JohnO;
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/fair-size-hendey-houston-289506/

Here is the Hendeyman rundown of this machine's history;

alskdjfhq:

Posting the serial number is making sense out of the dimensions that were listed in the ad. As I had thought, this was a special order lathe that exceeded the normal maximum bed length for a 24 inch Geared Head lathe. Hendey lathe #23751 is a 24 x 30 Geared Head model built on October 6, 1920. It is considered a 1918 model design and was shipped with a Taper Attachment and an extra Steady Rest. The center to
center distance will be 293 inches with the Tailstock flush with the end of the bed. The Centers used are Morse-Hendey #5 and the Center Bushing is a Morse-Hendey #6. Spindle bore is 1-3/4 inches. Speed Ranges are 10rpm to 320rpm. As I mentioned in a previous post it has nine speeds. Screw cutting range is 1 to 56 tpi. It uses the old style 4 tpi Leadscrew that was changed to the 2 tpi Leadscrew in 1924. The original owner was the Joshua Hendy Iron Works, Sunnyvale, California. Sans motor, it should weigh about 15,550 lbs. Very few Repair Parts are left in inventory, but all of the original drawings are still in the files, so parts can be made.

Hendeyman

Here are the pictures from today, since there are more than 5, I used Photobucket to host them, hope the link works.
The pictures depict the process by which the lathe was rotated 180 degress.

Moving The Hendey Photos by mebunting | Photobucket

The big forklift is a 25,000lb capacity machine and there has to be something wrong with it, it was straining to lift the headstock end and would not hold the lathe in the air, also the forks were visibly flexing and allowed the lathe to slide down the forks.

The pucker factor was ENORMOUS. The guy spotting the forklift drivers was a complete moron, and the guy driving the little forklift was totally out to lunch. They about dropped the lathe twice, and broke two of the leadscrew counter balances.

Loading only took about 15min, but it was a terrifying 15min.

The trailer is technically only rated to 10,000lbs (two 7k axels), and it's 24ft long with a 3ft dovetail. So yes, you can say we were a bit overloaded.....

As we were going down the road at 20 miles an hour, something interesting happened. A fellow in a Mercedes, pulled along side (since the truck's A/C isn't working the windows were down)and as we were moving, asked if we wanted to sell the lathe. Since it was time to check tires, chains and wheel bearings we pulled over. He fell all over himself to offer me $5,000 for it sight unseen.

So is this guy a fluke? Should I snap at the chance to get 5 grand for it? I'm not really looking to sell it (I've only owned it for a matter of hours) but it is somewhat interesting. What would be the value of a lathe with 24' of center distance, if in good condition?

In spite of that offer, I'm going to tear into it and see what shape it really is in.

You have a surprising amount of discretionary income for your age

Thanks for saving this unique piece Matt.

Hmmm. $5K cash in your hand or 40" Conehead Hendey yard art?

Tough decision.

Garwood said:

40" Conehead Hendey yard art

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It isn't a cone head.

I want to know his reason for offering 5k for a machine possibly In very poor condition and seeing it for 30 seconds before offering that price. I want to know why he wants a machine like this.

johnoder said:

Thanks for saving this unique piece Matt.

Click to expand...

I've still got a long way to go before it's 'saved', it may be too far gone....

There are some worrisome symptoms.

Haven't had time to do any exploratory surgery yet though.

My shop owner is too cheap to buy it, but the bed alone at 20ft would make a great polishing lathe. Bed length is king in hydraulic shops and such.

I build an extrusion shaft that is 8' long pays<1k also one identical in all respects but 11' pays>5k.

Size matters.

Your lathe is worth 5k just to rig out and load it.

If it does have a possible use because of the bed length (30ft bed, 24'5" center distance), what's Garwood's problem with it?

Plain bearings? Wear? Slow? Light machine?

Its not in too bad a shape wear wise from the measuring I've done; the spindle bearings aren't too worn, and the bed is isn't that worn either, no obvious ridge or any scoring to speak of.

JohnO, the rebuild plan is to first remove the motor and see if it works, then remove head stock cover and see what it's like inside the head stock then go from there.

Is there anything I should know about when removing the cover? Or something to look for inside the head stock?

It'll be next weekend before I get to the lathe again.

Here is a shot with the cover off for what its worth (bottom of page). Looks like some bolts to undo and then lift off.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/24 Hendey GH/Scan01.jpg

Hendeyman says there are drawings - I'd start with HS assembly if there is such a drawing, and I would have that to look at before lifting the cover. Such a doc may have info on where shims would be, etc. - rather than letting such things disappear into the old goop.

As can be seen, this is a TUMBLER design gear set. Others that come to mind that subscribed to this least adequate way to build such things (primary drives) was Cincinnati Milling Machine, that used similar set ups in its gear head mills up to the early twenties. K&T also in the A and B series designs.

alskdjfhg said:

JohnO, the rebuild plan is to first remove the motor and see if it works, then remove head stock cover and see what it's like inside the head stock then go from there.

Is there anything I should know about when renovoving the cover? Or something to look for inside the head stock?

Click to expand...

Whether or not you should take the 5K and run depends a lot on what you want to do with it.

If you don't have a specific long term job for it, or at least a likely chance that you will, you should probably sell it. Take the money, buy a nice job shop sized machine (you could get a very nice 10EE for 5K...) and you would have a machine that will be far more useful to you. Garwood probably got rid of it because it's the type of machine that takes up a lot of space for a lot of years before those few jobs where it's needed come around.

In the end, it boils down to what you want to do with it. It's an awesome machine, but can you use it? It's just too damn big for most jobs.

Wayne

johnoder said:

Here is a shot with the cover off for what its worth (bottom of page). Looks like some bolts to undo and then lift off.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/24 Hendey GH/Scan01.jpg

Hendeyman says there are drawings - I'd start with HS assembly if there is such a drawing, and I would have that to look at before lifting the cover. Such a doc may have info on where shims would be, etc. - rather than letting such things disappear into the old goop.

As can be seen, this is a TUMBLER design gear set. Others that come to mind that subscribed to this least adequate way to build such things (primary drives) was Cincinnati Milling Machine, that used similar set ups in its gear head mills up to the early twenties. K&T also in the A and B series designs.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll send a PM to Hendeyman and see if there is a scan or something of that document.

Last thing in the world I want to do is break something because of over enthusiasm.

How would you go about testing the motor? Just wire it in and try it?

I opened the bearing caps on the motor and the oil reservoirs were full of rusty water, so the motor may be shot. But if it's not, should I do something other than trying to power it to test it? I just don't want to damage it.

waynes said:

Whether or not you should take the 5K and run depends a lot on what you want to do with it.

If you don't have a specific long term job for it, or at least a likely chance that you will, you should probably sell it. Take the money, buy a nice job shop sized machine (you could get a very nice 10EE for 5K...) and you would have a machine that will be far more useful to you. Garwood probably got rid of it because it's the type of machine that takes up a lot of space for a lot of years before those few jobs where it's needed come around.

In the end, it boils down to what you want to do with it. It's an awesome machine, but can you use it? It's just too damn big for most jobs.

Wayne

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No I don't have a job for it or even the possibility of a job for it, so I should sell it. But his interest has confirmed what I suspected, that this machine, despite age, has a use and is somewhat valuable.

The guy that offered to buy it needed it, MikeC could probably use it (even though it's a raised lathe, it may be nicer than the raised lathe that he was talking about about once, 18in Meuser rasied to 40" IIRC) and I think me having a machine that not many shops have, may be an advantage.
The guy that made the offer, may farm out the work to me.

That being said, I haven't quite figured out how to get it off the trailer yet. And if I sold it, the buyer would unload it.

Old iron disease got the best of Matt.....so sad

Glad you got it home safely.

Who drove? you or dad?

I bet you guys received some strange stares going down the highway.

Ken

4GSR said:

Old iron disease got the best of Matt.....so sad

Glad you got it home safely.

Who drove? you or dad?

I bet you guys received some strange stares going down the highway.

Ken

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Dad did.

When ever we move machinery, he drives and I have my head sticking out of the window watching the load/trailer, telling him how he's making the turns and such or spotting outside the truck.

We've done so many oversize/overloaded moves, that I'm ashamed to admit we've almost got it down to a science....

And yes, we got a few strange looks and rude finger gestures.
People though we were nuts swerving all over the road to dodge pot holes.

That poor, poor Dodge, and that trailer will never be the same again.

Around here, that lathe would be most useful. Actually a little long, but still useful. I would wager getting very profitable work for the machine would be easier than you think. I don't have a clue about Texas, but here in Indiana, there is a dearth of large machines to handle the shaft and roll work. Most of the large roll work is stupid simple, and doesn't require a high degree of accuracy. The majority entails re-fitting of bearings, polishing, etc. Most turning is done toward the tailstock end where the wear is at a minimum.

I think you have done very well Matt. I am envious.

"Most of the large roll work is stupid simple, and doesn't require a high degree of accuracy. "

Quite the opposite for us. We chrome and finish the roll itself. +- .003 on a 24" diam x 8ft long roll. Actual size usually isn't critical, but that full length tolerance gets ya.

I'm not sure yet, but I think this lathe could hit a tolerance of +-.003. Bed dosent look to bad, but need to get rust off to do a good assessment.

No idea how you'd hit a tight tolerance on length.
Trav-A-Dial?

I believe what Mike C. is referring to is holding the OD within .003" for the full length. Used to rough turned OD's and hold within .005" for the full length of 6 to 12 foot all day long. OF course that was on a NOS Monarch lathe that came from government storage.

I agree rolls can be tight on tolerances, but in many applications, if not most, this is not the case. The rolls I have dealt with can come from several firms, and are used for: paper and cardboard production, newspaper, plastic packaging, labels, and bakery systems. The length is usually not critical, and often is around +/- .015" or more. In my last shop, we could only measure to 60" with a honking big vernier, above that, we used a calibrated "flexi-mic.", read: tape measure. The large 40" lathe employed a Trav-A-Dial, and we got along fine.

I will also state, that in some applications, the bakery rolls come to mind, holding a +/- .003" O.D. for the length of the roll was required. This was due to the rolled material "crawling" toward the low side of the roll. This is not pronounced on rolls less than about 48", but can be a problem for the longer ones.

Regarding Trav-A-Dials, they work pretty good, but can be finicky. If you are careful, you can do good work with them. Sure beats spending $5K or so for a DRO with a 100" scale.

Hitting that tolerance would depend on the condition of the machine and my ability to compensate for the wear. I can't wait to get the rust off and see what the ways are really like.

So what's the PM opinion on how to find out if the motor is any good? Don't know if wiring it in is the best way to find out, given the water and rust inside the motor.

It's a GE 10hp 220v 3phase motor, presumably as old at the lathe, 94.

alskdjfhg said:

on how to find out if the motor is any good?

It's a GE 10hp 220v 3phase motor, presumably as old at the lathe, 94.

Click to expand...

If you feel energetic, put it in the truck, back it thru the gate and we can see if the PP will wake it up. If it is known to be wet, it probably makes sense to have it baked first.

If it runs, we can see if the bearings are any good, though if actually that old they are likely ring oiled Babbitt