Confirmation on that back-gear. External on this. It worked exactly like a back-gear on a lathe with two gears on an eccentric shaft that are brought in by moving the lever. There is a "pin" on the pulley large end to "detach" the pulley from the shaft and make the lay gear available.

And like your "internal" gear Rockford, my current WF&J Barnes DP has a "slider" to hold the stationary part of a planetary type gear reduction in place. (This figures as Rockford and Barnes were like two fingers on the same hand.)

I would assume the HP ratings are based on the presence of a back gear. It's a little unusual to NOT see a back-gear. Mostly on the smaller/lighter DPs.

Joe

I have seen that machine and even thought about buying it but already am at my quota. To bad you dont have a better picture of the vice. If I remember right it had some specific things about it that I thought was neat. Go for it sometimes the willlet you hagle the price.

Yep, John not George, pardon me. And, maybe I don't know where this machine was photographed as I thought it looked like a machine dealer I visited once down there.
Finally, I see the the literature does say 1 hp. I'm still ubnder the imprerssion that both of mine has 2 hp motors, but I can't easily check this.

As stated, the machine in the photograph is back geared.

NS, my Royersford (late model all V belt) has a one hp motor on it as well. Can't be sure it's original, as I'm the third owner.

Back gear is hard to miss in this picture. I should have looked at it closer before.
Talked to the place this afternoon, waiting for the confirmation that it is in fact for sale, and if the $195 still holds.
John

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Ok. You now know what you have to do. Don't talk to us again until it's done.

(I'm talking to you like your father. Meanwhile, congratulate yourself on your good taste in machinery and your good sense to make it happen.)

The "planer boys" (those who have let the course of this disease progress to the point where they now own a planer) know firsthand about "The Nurse." Usually by the time the old iron disease is this progressed the victim usually can't think much about anything other than old iron.

You see there's this nurse who comes by while the wife isn't looking and gives the most extreme sufferers a pill which allows them some semblance of a normal life. You know. After your pill, you talk to the wife, you tell a joke, you watch TV, you maybe even have a beer and relax with your feet up on the hassock. The effect of the pills are only temporary - relief lasts only until the sufferer sees yet another old machine that needs a home - and someone to care for it.

Shortly after the arrival of the nurse and her pill, the victim goes in and watches TV, usually something like "Desperate Housewives" or some other female emotional sedative. And according to reports from the wife, he seems to enjoy it.

This can go on for some time. Wives when confronted with this first are pleased that their significant other seems to have turned a corner in their addiction. The back rubs given by victim/significant other please the wife still further. Then without warning, the wife gets concerned. Maybe he's finally come unhinged? Finally, out of concern for the mate, wife then makes the statement "Why don't you go outside to the shop and work on that new (fill in the blank here) whatever it is all rusty and dirty?" An opportunity presents itself.

This is your chance and what the nurse is all about. This is known in the old iron circles as the *optimal marital condition.*

Stick with the nurse. The nurse knows.

But you have to work your way up to a planer.

Go slow. A planer is a big step. And the nurse doesn't tolerate pretenders to the throne. You might find yourself stuck in front of Desperate Housewives with no easy way out.

All in good fun. Have fun with it.

Joe

Joe,
I could only hope for that kind of situation. The usual response I get from my wife is "another POS?". To make matters worse, the shop is 7 miles away. I try to avoid any machine related discussions with her. She just does not understand.
My father would be right along with me on it, but he's 100 miles away, and getting a little tool old for this kind of stuff. I do blame him to a point. He started it....although I'm taking it to a higher level, but I don't see a planer in my future.

FYI, we gave up DH a season ago. Too much like a soap opera. The usual is crime dramas. There's way too much violence on TV, so I sit with the laptop (perusing PM, and other similar stuff) and casually watch.

John

Spoken as a "true keeper of the flame." Mine was grey (drill press, that is) Colors may vary.

Good luck. Lotsa pix please.

Joe

2 phone conversations, 1 email and I still can't get an answer from them!
"We have no record of the other call", "Why don't you come by?", "we'll get back to you", "we'll find the email and get back to you"....

I'm showing up with my trailer at 8am tomorrow and hoping for the best!
I'm buying more steel, maybe that will help?

John

Generally with Craigslist, if I get anything other than a "come on over right now" I assume that there is someone else involved and the owner may be trying to incite a bidding war.

I guess I'm o.k. with that EXCEPT if the owner has named a price in the posting. In that case it's whoever agrees to the posted price and gets him to take their money first sort of situation. But some sellers are not into "fair." At least as I measure it. They're only into it for the bucks. And since they think they'll see you only once, they can play a game and work you up for more.

I'm a believer in "you sets your price and takes your chances." There's nothing wrong with sending someone away with "I'm sorry but it's sold. If it falls through, I'll give you a call."

Joe

For those that were interested/curious/speculating on where this was, it came from Fazzios in South (New) Jersey. It's not there any more.
I showed up, parked near it, and 20 minutes later it was loaded. Since I can't leave without buying more stuff, I rummaged around for an hour, and was off. It was $195. Got it back to my shop without any problems, and there it sits, for now. The work table does not appear to have any marks at all. Maybe the monster vise table has been on it since the beginning?

It appears to be in quite good condition. There is no apparent damage anywhere, nor any missing parts. The spindle, main shaft, and counter shaft are all frozen, but I suspect only sightly. The table lift screw is bent slightly near the bottom, but should be easy to remedy.

The motor is an Allis Chalmers 2hp, 1750 rpm, 3ph, 208/416V. My 208v 3hp rotary converter ought to feed it's need. Sure wish I had that missing 3rd lead in my panel.....someone ran a new feed to my panel, and did not make it 3ph. There is a 3ph line in the panel, but no-one knows why it is there, or where it goes. Since the panel is a 3ph panel, there is a jumper between 2 rails, which makes for an interesting 208 breaker situation. Hmm, why is there 0 volts on this circuit?? The building owner is a (retired) commercial electrician, and he's not even sure what the deal is. Getting 3ph installed is expensive, I'm told.

My intention is to do a proper mechanical rehab, but not a restoration. I want to use it, not restore it (for now). I have too many other projects going on. I will clean it and put a coat of paint on it, but that's about it. I will end up with a good bit of it apart to address all the mechanics. I'll start a new thread for that.

Anyone have any tips/advise, that may not be obvious, on basic mechanical rehab? The 2 shafts clearly have bearing caps, so they will be easy to deal with, but the spindle is a different story. Everything else seems straight forward enough, but those that have been there may well know better!

Thanks to all for the insight, information and encouragement!

John

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-Well, mine's a bit older and a different make, but the overall design and layout is very, very close.

As you noted, the upper shaft has caps. Easy removal (assuming the bolts haven't rusted) and easy to clean and lube.

On mine, the quill was locked to the casting, the spindle locked to the quill, the spindle locked to the crown gear, and the gear locked to the casting again. Fortunately not heavily rusted, but enough "surface" rust and dried grease/crud that they were all well and truly stuck.

The first thing I did was hand wire-brush as much rust as possible off the parts that were going to have to be slid out.

Then, with a bit of Kroil and WD-40, and some "let it soak" patience, the quill freed up fairly easily. It still wouldn't move, but I could see it quiver a bit when I pulled the handles.

I then made a tool- a collar with a key and two wide handles- that let me try to turn the upper spindle shaft without marring it like a pipe wrench would have. With some heat and more WD/Kroil, I managed to break it loose from the crown gear. It wouldn't turn much, as it was restrained by the drive key in the gear, but I could shake it fractionally just enough to get some lube in there.

That let me slide the quill and spindle free. I then removed the spindle retaining collar at the top of the quill, clamped the quill in a vise (with heavy padding) and alternated tapping it with a hammer (with an aluminum buffer to keep from peening anything) and twisting it with the tool. Again, plus heat and penetrating oil. I eventually broke it loose as well. Don't forget that collar!

Last, I used a small hydraulic jack and more heat/lube to very gently push the crown gear out of the casting:



After that it was a simple matter of removing the rust by various means, and getting the parts ready to reassemble. I've been having excellent results with the old electrolytic rust removal trick. It doesn't abrade the surfaces- like the closely fitted quill- like power wire brushing, sandblasting or Scotchbrite wheels would.

Doc.

is it my imagination, or is your trailer a pallet with an axle and a tongue attached?

Hey, be nice! No, it's not a pallet, it just resembles one.
In a former life it was a small boat trailer, which was converted for an ultralight helicopter (not mine). I further converted it to a 5x10 flat bed for hauling heavy stuff. First it was a BP round ram mill, then several tons of rocks, concrete and bricks, then a Traub A25 (and then another...), and most recently, the Excelsior.
It should be good for a full 2000lb load. 4x4 underframe, 5/4 decking, 8 1000lb tiedowns, 3000lb axle, and 2250lb tires.

Doc,
Thanks for the pointers. My quill is nearly 1/2 way out the bottom of the casting already. Maybe that's a great head start. I was considering the scotchbrite, but now that you've mentioned it, maybe not a good idea. I've already loaded it up with WD40, but will need more. I will see if I can find the Kroil. I've heard good things about it, but never seen it in a store.

Seems, like most others, the handle for the table lift is missing. I found a couple other threads covering this.

John

Even at $195 you did very well. You're almost into "gloat" mode. No matter, you now have a machine you'll use for MANY things.

My R21 was well worn by the time I got it. The quill was good but where the crown gear turned in the babbit bearing , it was loose to the tune of 1/8". You could see the drill point "circle" as the crown gear went around in it's opposing, and irregular circle.

My solution was to make a collar that fit the small diameter of the quill where it goes through the crown gear. Drilled for a tool bit and held in place with a small set screw. Then I tightened up the quill bearings as much as I dared and put the quill in place with the collar/cutter just below where the crown gear turns. The chuck was still on the quill so I chucked a short stub of drill rod in the jaws. Then I used a variable speed electric drill clamped onto this stub to turn the quill and thus turn the collar/cutter. Using the "one armed bandit arm" I then moved the quill up slowly to take a cut in the babbit and bore it to a larger diameter. Babbitt cuts pretty easily and cleanly when there is a place for the cuttings to fall to. I had nice curls of babbit coming down and settling on top of that quill. When cut through, it was clean, straight, and in line perfectly with the center line of the quill.

From here I used a piece of 2-1/2" pipe and made a sleeve to fit the outer bearing surface of the crown gear just slightly smaller in diameter than the hole I made in the babbit/crown gear seat.

When it was all put together, a dial indicator on the quill showed less than .001 deflection when pressed by hand with moderate force - nice and solid.

This was all intended to use the R21 as a sort of "vertical boring mill" to bore cylinders in a Model A engine block held in reserve. Unfortunately a move to Cow Hampshire kind of put the ky-bosh on those plans - and in the confusion of the move, I elected to scrap the R21 instead of bringing it to Cow Hampshire. Stupid decision. It could have sat out in the yard while I built the house to contain it.

Anyway, you might not find your crown gear to be as worn. As you say, the condition looks better than my R21 and after a minor clean up you'll have something you'll use for a good long time.

Best,
Joe

-Absolutely nothing wrong with it, if you're using it by hand. Use the finer grades, and keep it wet with WD-40, wipe the resulting sludge frequently. You'll need to remove some of the rust just to disassemble things, assuming most of it hasn't worn sloppy-loose.

I only suggested against using Scotchbrite wheels on a power tool- it's too easy to blur markings, round edges and open clearances that way.

-Don't bother. It's pretty expensive, and really doesn't perform notably better than plain WD-40. I only used it because I had it, and it doesn't evaporate as fast as the WD, making it better for letting parts soak.

But at upwards of $15 to $20 a can, it's not that big a deal just to schpritz it with WD more often to keep it wet.

Doc.

Straight Dexron ATF or a 50/50 mix of Dexron/kerosene makes a fantastic rust penetrant. I use dexron more often than I use the rust penetrant issued to us at work. I've use it to remove rusty axle nuts that I couldn't remove with either my impact wrench, or my breaker bar and a 5 foot long cheater pipe.
It also works great on rusty forklift chains. Brush or drizzle it on and a week later, wipe it off with a rag. You're left with nice gray steel. I have Kroil and love it, but it's too expensive for everyday use.

It is indeed back-geared. You can see the covered back gears and small shifter lever just ahead of the upper cone.

I also recall that someone here photographed a combined table/vice on their drill. An interesting option. I would certainly recommend gong for it.

Tom B.

Thanks again for the additional pointers. I've got some atf and kero on hand, so I'll give that a try, although I hope that I won't need a week to soak. Nothing seems that bad. WD-40 ran out, so I've got to get more of that regardless.

Riderusty, You're a few post behind, I've already nabbed it I did a thorough search and did find a bunch of posts with additional info, pictures and docs. The vise/table was one. Mines bigger! Size still matters, right??

Doc, I've got a big box of assorted scotchbrite sheets. I'll use it carefully.

I was looking into MT taper drill bits. WOW they're expensive. I've got a Jacobs style chuck with an MT3 taper, and maybe a 3-4 sleeve, so that will be doing duty most of the time. I don't have much need for the big stuff, yet.

Headed off to the shop for some quality time with it. More pics to come, but like I noted before I'll start a new thread, and reference it here.
John

New thread:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...21-183343.html

Please post any further comments there.

Thanks again to all that have assisted so far.

John