Old GE Motor on the Monarch A

This is the old GE motor on my Monarch Model A.
See this thread for more info:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/new-me-16-monarch-model-291778/
I probably should have posted it in this forum, but I haven't spent enough time here to figure out all the ins and outs yet.

Now that I know the motor works fine, I want to keep it that way. All the oil that was in the bearing end caps has run out in the process of it moving twice before getting to my shop. So, what oil is used for ring oiled electric motors?
Here is the only remaining tag on the motor:
I suspect that is enough for someone to identify it, even though the main tag appears to have recently become a trophy for someone.
I did take amp measurements while running, but have not checked rpm yet.
Also, it seems likely that the ring oiler was removed from the pulley side. That end cap has modern bolts on it, and I can't see the ring. I can see the ring on the other side. It might be hiding in there, I have not checked. yet.
If it's missing, what is the best way to replace it? The old one looks like it was a braided copper ring?
I cleaned it out a bit since taking the pictures. All the oily spots on the machine seem covered with hair -?- (I can't really figure that out, and I'll leave it at that..)

Hello: I have an old Westinghouse motor on a Kearney and Trecker horizontal mill which uses the same ring oiler type arrangement....On mine, there is a window in the top of both bushings which exposes the turning shaft to the ring which rotates and constantly keeps the bearing flooded with oil .. This is a very good arrangement as far as I can tell if the wells are kept full of oil and THE DRIVE BELTS ARE NOT SET TOO TIGHTLY...

I had to make a new bushing for the take off end of my motor as someone had set the drive belts with too much tension thereby wearing the top of the bushing (the drive us above the motor).

If you have a ring missing, there is no way for that journal to get oil..

Light weight machine oil, not automobile engine oil, should be used... Hydraulic oil probably #32 or # 46 should suffice..

Ramsay 1

I overhauled a similar 2hp ring oiled motor a while back. Mine had a bushing prone to seizing, so I had to take the end bells off to open up the troublesome bushing. There was a lot of gunk inside and relatively fine clearances between the rotor and stator- so I'd encourage opening it up. You may find lots of sludge down in the sumps- pull off all the drain fittings and get in there with mineral spirits etc. Theres not a lot of magic related to the ring, but it should be rigid, so the rotor shaft will get it rotating and bringing oil up to the journal surface but not large enough to bind anywhere. I'd use something like DTE oil- something like 5 or 10 weight (Mobil Velocite #10 for example). You might find a piston ring of suitable size, for example. I would not expect something braided would be suitable. You should definitely work up some kind of covers though- the motor I worked up had snazzy spring-loaded covers.

You should probably use a non detergent oil. Detergent oils tend to corrode bronze bearings

The hair that you are seeing is probably RAT hair!

Ring oilers

A piston ring is an excellent idea!

I know there is a lot of gunk in there, as I dug some of it out already. I've been trying to stop myself from doing the whole tear down and rebuild thing, as I'm really prone to doing that and having the machine in parts for a year(s). Motor end bells are a pretty small sub-project though, how big of trouble can that get me in.

I pulled the pulleys off the shafts because they were too far out of alignment for the motor slide plate to handle and I needed them positioned better on the shafts. That allowed me to find that the gearbox pulley had been sleeved to a smaller diameter. The sleeve was executed such that it was slid into the large pulley diameter, and an oversize through hole provided such that the set screw would pass through the un-keyed sleeve to bear upon the key in the shaft. This makes the set screw a loose fitting shear pin, and the only means of driving the gearbox. I'm not sure, but I think I'm just going to weld the sleeve to the pulley and be done with it.

The oiling rings have to be continuous without any flat spots in them so they will not stop rolling when the shaft is turning.. Maybe bore a piece of round stock and turn for proper dimension then part off the thickness you need...Ramsay 1

My 1917 Westinghouse 10 HP 865 RPM has flat bronze rings - about 3/32 wall and 5/16" wide.

New bushing or not?

Well, I pulled the end bell off the motor, and was greeted by a sparkly bronze mess that looked worse than it was.
The bushing at the pulley end appears to have been replaces sometime in the past. The rotor was hitting the inside of the windings at some point, and a repair made. The rotor looks no worse for the wear, but the field coil laminations have been worn down nearly 1/16th of an inch! The repaired bushing is about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch shorter than the original, and was not made to accept a ring oiler, or have any lube grooves inside it. Other than running the oil level at shaft height, I don't see how the replacement gets oiled. It is worn about 7 thou right now.
The shaft ends will clean up fine. There are some spots on them that look like they are from sitting a long time in one spot, but nothing bad. The other end of the motor still has the original bushing, and so I can see how it was supposed to be done. The bushing is cut nearly half way through from the top where the ring lives. The ring is captured, and cannot be removed once the bushing is pressed into the casting. It must be placed inside the casting when the bushing is pressed in. The cut for the ring extends down to two horizontal grooves in the ID of the bushing that extend across it to within 1/2 inch from each side. 1/8 inch in from each end there is an ID groove about 1/8" wide by 1/8 inch deep. There are 3 drain holes drilled about the bottom that allow oil that gets into these grooves to run back to the sump where the ring sends it back around again. The front bushing has none of this.
So now I have to decide whether to keep running the repair as it, modify it in some way, or replace the whole thing with a replica of the original bushing.

I recently restored a Hardinge Quick Change Swing Lathe built ca 1919. It was powered by a G. E. 1 hp. 3 phase motor quite similar to yours, with the exception that the bearings were babbitt instead of bronze. I would reccommend flushing all the dirt out of the bearing oil sumps, and making a replica of the original bearing, a new ring, and replacing the snap covers that cover the openings. If you raise the oil level in the front bearing sump high enough to lube a plain bearing, it will just run out the clearance between the end bell and the shaft and cause a mess. I would also reccommend that you contact a good motor rewind shop in your area and inquire if they have any NOS bearings and rings to fit your motor. They may also have some spring snap covers for the top of the bearing housing. Or they may be able to rob some parts from an old G. E. Motor laying around. If you go with the original design, they will seemingly last forever if you keep them clean and oiled.

Wes Loomer

I found a good description of the originals here:
http://www.aem.umn.edu/~muno/Oliver/GE_Motor_Sleeve_Bearing.pdf

Spindle bearing - while were at it.

Took apart the front spindle bearing cap tonight just for a look.
It shows some evidence of a corrosion pattern etched into it, and a bunch of small ridges matching those on the spindle.
However, it turns very nice, and seems like it should be fine. There are still shims on each side of the bearing cap.
I'm not sure why there appears to be a different color around the lube cup on top. Seems like a brass pipe was installed and scraped down flush.

After I put it back together I stuck a 2 ft pipe in the spindle and pushed and pulled on it with all my might. I was able to get about 1 thou movement either way, 2 thou total. Does that seem about right?

The plot thickens. After taking some measurements, I determined that the pulley side of the shaft has been turned down. It measures 1.247" while the back end measures 1.372". The large end is the one that has the ring oiler, and seems original. I suspect that the pulley side failed so bad that the shaft was turned down and a new bushing installed to correct it. That likely means that the odds of finding a real replacement bushing just got a lot smaller. Making a new one may be the best option.

Hello: As long as the windings are good, make a new bushing, a new ring oiler, and be sure to clean the windings with electric motor cleaner then totally soak the windings with spray insulation after they are dry.. Do not use anything to clean that would further break down the insulation...I use Sprayon brand motor insulation and have had good success with it in windings of electric motors, welding generators, etc..

On the lathe, I think I had one of those many years ago and it was the first one I ever had.. I never did anything to the spindle bearings though I suspect someone had installed roller bearings in place of the split bushings... The rest of the lathe was totally worn out though....I would imagine it had seen many years of hard work.. Ramsay 1