Should I invest in this lathe? Old bradford

Tonymathis1388 · Feb 13, 2014

Hello, my name is tony. This is my first post and only have about a year knowledge in a machine shop so bear with me. Currently I am a diesel mechanic and millwright. My desire to one day open a fab/machine shop mostly for asphalt equipment and truck parts. I have come across an old lathe. It's been sitting on the Oregon coast under a carport for a long time. It's a "the bradford company" 14-16" lathe with approx 48" between centers

I'm looking at this and not noticing a threading gearbox. Does this mean it switches gears only on the front side?

Can it have a gearbox installed on this(if I managed to find one)?

The ways are all rust covered but not deep pits. I'm assuming that it would need to be reground. Am I right in thinking it will need to be done?

The cost to regrind and have the carriage mate up with the polymer underside stuff, run around 1200$? California the closest place to get that done?

The guy is offering it to me 4 500$. I'll post more question later. Thank you in advance for reading through or responding. Biggest thing, is it worth restoring this old lathe? Will it fit me as a good starter lathe?

moonlight machine · Feb 13, 2014

You will never find an O E gearbox, a South bend one might work. Does it come with a stack of change gears? If so why bother with a gearbox? Just scrape the rust off. Lots of of posts on PM about rust removal. No way you will get it ground and Turcite done for 1200.00......... I would not pay 500.00 for it, but I have 3 good lathes and a South Bend already. Good starter lathe? Sure, why not if that is all you can spend. Don't put any more money in it than you have to though, it is a 3-500.00 lathe and no matter what you do to "restore" it, that is all it will ever be worth.

hanermo · Feb 13, 2014

This is a hard question..
And experienced guy can re-build a lathe, certainly. From any condition.
The costs to do so, are about the same as buying a new chicom lathe. In this case in the 14" size- about 8000$.

An in-experienced guy cannot rebuild a big industrial lathe to near-new or equivalent-to-new-today condition without more costs than the equivalent chicom model, today.

Industrial-sized gears, and spindle bearings, and making ways, all cost significant money.
Say 2000$ for spindle bearings (maybe 500-800$ for near equivalent or a lucky nos find).
Say 500$ for a nos or eastern europe chuck.
Steady rest. Tailstock rebuild. 500$ each in parts and work.
Thats 3500$ or so, and 100-200 hours work.
Add maybe 50-80$ each for 8-12 gears, of the appropriate size for a 14" lathe.
Add 1000$ for a 3kW VFD and motor, at a minimum.
Thats about 5000$ in parts, and a sh$tload of work.

Internal honing, grinding, lapping or large reamers are all expensive.
Most jobs can be bodged to be almost-as-good, with low cost "stuff", and an extra 5x to 10x work.
So .. if you want to do that, you will get better results with the chicom stuff.

All above expeting you can use free mics, internal and external, alignment tools, and other tools to do the precision work.

timvercoe · Feb 13, 2014

The is a salvage yard here in flagstaff AZ that received a 14 by 60 rockwell in scrap, ways are in pretty good shape there is a 3 and 4 jaw chuck, steady rest follow rest some tooling in the chip tray. It has a quick change gear box. Needs a good cleaning and hooked up to power and tested to see why it was scraped. I know it is a long way from OR but I point this out because there are some really worthy machines out there that are being scraped, that could be put back into production. The machine your looking at looks like a worthy project for someone that has the inclination and the time. Your would learn volumes of stuff, but is that where you want to spend your time. Personally I want to save every old machine tool, so for me there is a strong emotional element to acquiring.............As you know this is a great website for information and parts........Good luck with your search and your purchase.

Tim

wippin' boy · Feb 13, 2014

500 is high
but that might be what it takes to get a bomber class lathe in your area
200 would be better but that is probly below melt so get it as cheap as you can
if you want something to play with and have 500 bucks to blow, go for it
if you really need something to make parts on, this probly ain't it

RedlineMan · Feb 13, 2014

Welcome;

You should be getting the impression that it "make$ no $en$e" to acquire this lathe. Restoring an old lathe "make$ no $en$e," which is why they are being tossed (the fact that you CAN'T BUY anything as well made as these old timers without cubic truckloads of money notwithstanding). If money & time is an issue, it only make$ $en$e to buy one already done or that needs little to nothing. If you need it to make money for you, that is the rule.

If you love a project, love old machines or want to learn to, have a strong historical sense, and want to learn about machining from the ground up, then it may make some sense. It still is more feasible to acquire a more common machine that you can readily find parts for, but it also may be the case that not much is needed. It is possible that all it needs is a really good cleaning, although it is unlikely that there is nothing broken or worn out. Knowing what to look for and how to evaluate it is key here. I don't know a whole lot about old machines, but I would go into it assuming that I would never find any used parts, and anything I needed would have to be made. Based on that, you have to make sure it doesn't need anything you can't make!

If the owner is basing his price on scrap value, you're kind of stuck. If he has any love of the machine, he might dicker to see it "saved." I'd try to get it REALLY cheap, because if you buy it you have a long road ahead of you in ANY event.

BobRenz · Feb 13, 2014

Instead of spending money to buy this lathe, and then throwing more and more into the pot, look a for a used South Bend instead. Parts are available, QC change gears are extremely common, and prices are reasonable. With a bit of looking, you can find a well-tooled machine. They are fairly straightforward to operate, and readily sold when that time comes along.

RedlineMan said it well - but always remember, is your goal to RESTORE a lathe, or to USE a lathe? You'll make money a lot faster with a usable machine versus a restorable machine.....

enginebill · Feb 13, 2014

The lathe doesn't look too bad to me. I would just clean it up, scrape the rust off the ways and use it as is. There is no reason why you couldn't some make money with it the way it is and if a newer lathe comes along that suits you better you could upgrade then. The set of change gears must come with the lathe though. Without them it is good for turning only, no threading. Without the gears I would offer $250 for it and I wouldn't invest any more money "upgrading" it.

alskdjfhg · Feb 13, 2014

+1 for not too bad.
Just looks like that old girl just needs a good cleaning.

How common are lathes in Oregon?

Here is one I'm working on, you can see how problems just seem to compound. And I'm not doing a real restoration, just cleaning and fixing the immediate problems.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/moving-12-000-lbs-lathe-277845/

Restoring old iron is not the worst way to spend money.

It comes down to what you want to do. Preserve some of our vanishing industrial heritage, or buy a G@&%$y and be making chips tomorrow.

johnoder · Feb 13, 2014

Welcome Tony.

Just clean it up a little and learn to use it as is - if you can wrangle it for about $250. It still thinks its a regular lathe under the ugliness. Millions of articles were machined to functionality on lathes that never had "gear boxes"

On edit: Some good general lathe info if needed - a pair of pdfs on How To Run A Lathe
http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_1of2.pdf
http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_2of2.pdf

Rust, especially on the older ones often just pushes of with a scraper - like here

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/20 Heavy Greaves Klusman/Coming Home/DCP_1289.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/20 Heavy Greaves Klusman/Bed Work/DCP_1317.jpg

Have about a 1910 catalog - I'll see if I can come up with a scan and edit in here

Here is an 18" - maybe your prospect isn't this big

Thomas Paine · Feb 13, 2014

Tony Griffiths says it weighs 1600 lbs. Multiply that by your local scrap rate. Being your proximity is close to the ocean and saltwater, that rust would be highly suspect. since the cities around you seem to be machinery deserts, you could make the trip to southern CA, bring something nice back, and get a premium later when you resell it in your area. you might be able to recoup all your costs.

michiganbuck · Feb 13, 2014

$500 seems a lot for such a big project. You will probably want threading so be sure it is capable (gears).
Could be worth 0 to $1000. (0= hauling it away or $300 worth of work)
*Might be a lot of surface rust on a good lathe.. or not
You could pull the spindle bearing cap and see if the spindle OD is rusted.
Put a straight edge on ways. Although need not be perfect for much auto/truck work.

South Bend Metal Lathe

Don’t run under power IMHO with it being so dry IMHO.
If you buy (get) it don't spray can push that rust into bearings

woodsrider845 · Feb 13, 2014

What do you think your total cost to get it to it's new home would be? Take that into consideration. I have a few old lathes I'd let go to a deserving home in that price range, in much better condition. Only problem is getting them to you would cost some money.

I love old iron. If you aren't going cnc, the oldies are the best (in my opinion). If you have the heart and desire to put countless hours (and probably dollars) into a lathe, go for it. Restoring anything is the absolute best way to learn about it!

KB3AHE · Feb 13, 2014

that is a pretty kool looking lathe. I love the old repulsion motor on it as well as the "overdrive" setup. It would probably be a great resto project, but not necessarily for a total noob. Your lack of knowledge could end up costing you a ton of unnecessary money. But.......... If you could get it a lot cheaper, and decided to try restoring it, you would gain a tremendous knowledge into the workings of a lathe, not to mention the use there of. Whatever piece of machinery you have, I'm sure there is someone on here that has knowledge about it.

Restoring an old rusty piece of machinery can be a long and tedious job, so "patience" is the keyword here. I had a 100+ year old Barnes 13 lathe that I sold a while back for a somewhat newer one with more bells and whistles. It made pretty good parts and I still have "sellers remourse" for selling it, but room was an issue at that time.

Just my $.02 worth

Frank

gotogojo · Feb 13, 2014

I picked up a hendey cone head gear dr. have not got it off the trl as yet nothing froze on it and the ways look real good by putting a strait edge on them. now does the same hold true as the one the man wants to know about.coming out in the end $$ wise. is some lathe.s worth more because name and age but then the older the machine more for parts and harder to find .and more$$ gotogojo

Riderusty · Feb 13, 2014

Hello & welcome Tony. You note that your future plan is to open your own shop. This machine may be a good starter lathe and will certainly be a learning opportunity as you bring it back to health. I divide my time between Long Island, NY and Portland, OR and am familiar with machine prices in both coasts. My "retirement" shop in NY in which I restore British motorcycles is filled with machines that have come to me for free or for very little but then that area was once a hotbed for the airframe industry and its supporting businesses. If that lathe is all there I think the $500 asking price is probably fair for the area. Lack of a quick change gear box could indicate that it is a "loose change" lathe and never had one. As noted above, see if there is a stack of different sized gears that is included--nothing wrong with that style if you are not threading on a production basis. Check the various Craigs List postings for various OR locations and compare prices--very few machines listed for under four figures although you may get lucky.

Tom B.

ahall · Feb 13, 2014

$500, thats about top dollar for the machine in this area.

If you are looking for a machine to use in a business setting, with employees, get something a bit more modern with proper guards.

As to putting another $1200 into the machine over the $500 asking price, for a total of $1700, and then transportating all over the place to have work done.
If you value your time and fuel, you will probably be money ahead to buy something with hardened ways. Talk to local machine shops and trade schools. Alot of them are getting rid of manual machines. Watch the industrial acuction listings. If you have the means to load and unload a lathe, you can do well that way.

There is plenty of newer iron on the marked and CNC machinery makes manual machines obsolete.
If your doing repair or rework, a manual engine lathe is very versitile and the set up is fast.
If you are doing production parts, you will starve trying to competeing with a modern CNC machine.

The other issue with a machine as part of a business is that down time costs money.
You cant get parts easily for this machine, so when something breaks, your down until you fix it.
That fine in the hobby shop when your time is not money, but when you need it to get stuff fixed and out the door to keep the lights on, its no good.

Another consideration. What is your impression when you walk into a shop and the technology in it predates your grandfather.
Think about that. If your clients see this machine in your business, no matter how well it works, will it send the right message.

alskdjfhg · Feb 13, 2014

As crazy as it is keeping this old stuff running, some people are doing it.

http://www.vannattabros.com/iron56.html
Central Texas Tools (Texas Country Reporter) - YouTube

Everybody's business model and niche is different.

Gordon Long · Feb 13, 2014

If you love it for what is is, get it. If you have the time to work it over and enjoy the process, it could be a fulfilling learning project. If you need a precise machine to make parts for your business and don't have a lot of time or money to throw at it, save your money and get something fresh and good to go. Henry Ford said that if you need a machine and don't buy it, you will have paid for it but not have it.

jdavi581 · Feb 13, 2014

My friend has one of these lathes-may be identical. The cone head plain bearing straight cut gear machines are nice because you can make most things that you will need to get it running and keep it running. It will take any motor with a old truck tranny to make it run, and change gears can be found/made/bought. If you buy a later model, you get into some pretty specialized equipment ($$$) to make parts, or some ($$$) to buy these parts, if available. I have a 1916 Hendy 12x60, and it had some issues. The gears were purchased for 50$ on ebay, machined to fit. Other people speak of bearings and gears costing thousands to get more modern lathes running. I agree that these newer machines are cleaner and nicer to run, but if I had to pay for any replacement parts are those types of cost, it would be sold before I could purchase those kind of parts.
Joe

Should I invest in this lathe? Old bradford

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