Thread: Spring-Type Threading Tool Holder (Lathes) + Ugly Wing Dividers

Here, in response to a request by Rivett608, is the spring-type threading tool holder whose acquisition required buying a box lot of rusty grimey tools. (Exactly why Rivett608 wanted to see this, I'm not sure. But when one of the world's foremost tool collectors asks to see something from your collection, all you say is "Yes, Sir!")

I've also tossed in a pic of some ugly dividers to contrast with all the handsome dividers seen here recently.

First two pictures are the springy-thingy. It has "S O DELANEY" stamped in 1/16th Roman letters in two places. I interpret that to be a property mark, but it may also be a maker's mark as I suspect this tool is shop-made, albeit extremely well. The only other mark is "44" in 5/16ths letters without serifs. These digits may be hand-struck with an ordinary chisel, as the two fours do not appear to be exactly alike and all strokes are just straight lines.

Third picture is some misc. dividers, one of which is from the orange box lots, although it's had a degreasing and a short citric acid bath.

From left to right:
1) WINSTED EDGE TOOL WORKS / - WINSTED, CONN. U.S.A. -
other side reads T. H. WITHERBY / WARRENTED
Note that there is no spring; the brass fine-adjust screw has right-handed external threads and left-handed internal threads. It works somewhat like a turnbuckle.
Note also the open slot in the leg with the Vee-shaped pointer. It looks like there might have been some plan to put calibrations on the wing. However, the fine-adjust would throw off any such calibrations.
Bought this one for $2, already cleaned.

2) Wm JOHNSON INC / NEWARK N.J. USA
Missing the wingnut. (Hex nut is an ill-fitting replacement.) Locking screw is broken off almost flush. I bought this one ONLY because I have a soft spot for New Jersey-made tools. (Not a native Jerseyman, but it's my adopted state.)
12" long.

3) P S & W / FORGED STEEL
A product of the prolific Peck, Stowe, & Wilcox which has seen better days.
In this case, the locking screw is broken off completely flush, an interesting challenge!
(Might patch this one up with parts from C.S. Osborne Co., which supports their dividers with spares to this day.) 12" long.

4) Unknown maker 8" long. Note that it has the spring design on the fine adjust.
This was part of the "boxlot of rust" - it's been in degreaser & citric acid for a short time plus some light wire-wheeling.

So, other than the spring tool holder, I claim that this post is about ugly wing dividers

John,

TANSTAAUD!!!!!! There Ain't No Such Thing As An Ugly Divider! Although, some of yours may lack a certain collector charm?

The "spring-type" thread tool holder looks interesting. I understand why Rivett wanted to see it. I don't think I have seen another (although playing 18 holes several times now at 98 degrees in the Florida sun may have affected my memory).

Have you tried the tool? Is it manufactured or craftsman made? And, what do you think about the design? Or is this some common tool you guys use daily?

Oh, and nice bucket of rust! I think this post constitutes a drive-by gloat!!!

AntiqueMac,

No, I've not tried that spring-type threading tool holder yet. The tool currently mounted in it is CLEARLY too long. Overhang is an enemy of accurate machining. Plus, the heel of the tool extends so far inside the spring that it would limit travel. (Note that there's a lower setscrew to accomplish the function of limiting travel.)

It's hard to say for sure, but since there is no company name on it, I'm leaning toward shop-made.

I believe Armstrong or Williams, or possibly both, made a similar tool holder. But, did they not them straight for use in a lathe with a compound? This one has a 30 degree offset built into the shank......would it be proper to conclude it was intended for a lathe without a compound rest? (Though it cannot predate the use of 1/4 square lathe tools!)

In the first picture, you can see that the bottom of the spring loop has a sliding bar that prevents any left-right distortion of the loop. The tool can "nod", but it cannot "shake its head".

John Ruth

I have an old sheet metal burring machine that uses that left hand/right hand-internal/external thread mechanism to adjust a stop. It's a neat trick; the stop moves about twice as far as the adjusting mechanism.

By your definition I guess I'm an ugly-divider collector. Those all look pretty good to me.

Hey Ya'll,
Any thought that the 'spring tool holders' may be a finishing tool for a shaper ?
Just an observation..
Cool dividers...
Stay safe
Calvin

CalvinB:

I did actually have that thought, that the spring tool holder might actually be a shaper tool.

In favor of that interpretation is the setscrew underneath the 1/4 square lathe tool, which can be seen in both pictures 1 and 2. This spring limits the travel of the spring loop, and if you tightened it enough it would even stop the loop from springing at all.

I haven't figured out why this feature is useful in a lathe, this limiting of the spring loop travel.

Working against id'ing this tool as a shaper tool is the 30 degree offset in the shank, which is not shown well in the photos but you can see that photo 1 has the interior of the bend up, while photo 2 has the interior of the bend down. the only possible use this could have in a shaper would possibly be working on the SIDE of the workpiece rather than the top, (Which just gave me the brainstorm that maybe this could be for a planer......if they cam in handed pairs. You might be able to use it to work the sides of a piece in a planer which did not have dedicated side tools.)

Another thing working against id'ing this as a shaper tool is that the 1/4 square tool found in this holder has a 60 degree vee cutting edge, which screams "threading!".

Thanks for the compliment on the dividers. Those were posted mostly as a contrast to some of the work-of-the-toolmaker's-art 18th and 19th century dividers that have been posted recently. These are sort of work-a-day items from the 20th century. With one exception, nobody treasured them, and they were left to rust until I found them.

So, does anyone have an Armstrong or Williams catalog that shows this type of springy lathe tool holder, for comparison?

John Ruth

That is a pretty nice spring tool...... I have a little one that came out of a box lot years ago and in some old book on the shelf it explained how to use it.... so I kept it... however in 25 years or so since I've had it it has yet to find it's way on to the lathe.

The divider by WINSTED EDGE TOOL WORKS sounds pretty neat, made by a company that made chisels, etc..... I'm sure it would have been marketed to a woodworker rather than a machinist. That would make it much more scarce than the typical divider and something I would think a normal tool collector (I don't think of myself as a normal tool collector, I collect metal weird stuff, not planes.... as a matter of fact I say the "S" in Stanley means "Sell It") would want.

Thanks

Im also voting in favor of the spring tool being for a shaper. Is it possible the 30 degree offset is to extend the reach of the tool sideways an extra several inches when working off the side of the shaper table as well as when cutting vertically?

Wish I could find a few pretty dividers...

Could tightening the spring set screw be useful for setting the center height? Set the tool high, then bring the tool down to get to center.... Just a thought.

Sphere, et al:

Looking at the springy lathe tool holder, you could be right. (I cannot bring myself to call it a Spring Lathe Tool Holder, because it makes it sound as if it were for a primitive Spring [Pole] Lathe.) It could be a height adjust, but somehow I just don't think so.

I did think these were to allow the tool to "nod" if it caught in the workpiece. Look at Post #7 from Rivett608. A spring _LATHE_ tool holder definitely exists. Whether this is one of them, I'm not 100% sure because of that setscrew to limit the travel.

A tool to work off to the side on a shaper does not need the spring feature, does it? The clapper box lifts the tool on the retreating stroke of the ram.

If the setscrew is engaged, it completely defeats the springiness in compression, but not in tension. This is what makes me think the setscrew is a "limit" - not meant to touch unless the spring is over-compressed.

John Ruth