Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 39
  1. #1
    Bubba-Jet's Avatar
    Bubba-Jet is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pgh East
    Posts
    24

    Default W.F. & J. Barnes No 13 questions

    Recently I acquired (saved) an ancient machine that needs some attention.
    Does anyone have a parts diagram or manual to reference ?
    Its a W.F & J. Barnes No 13 33" between centers ,converted over to Electric L232 US PAT Sept 21 1880 Stamped on bed,May 6 1902 on the Carriage.
    I spent a week scraping and wire brushing and removed 5 layers of paint and repainted it. Its looking decent now except for the broken toolrest and the lack of tooling.
    What taper was used or can be used on the Headstock and Tailstock ?
    The Compound Cross slide is broken at the upper dovetail I have someone trying to make a new one. The cross slide screw is bent and the nut is broken that drives the toolrest over the carriage.
    I will try to get some Pics today.
    Any one have any clue? I know parts for this are virtually impossible to find

  2. #2
    timekiller's Avatar
    timekiller is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Huntsville, AL U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,110

    Talking Clarification

    Hello Bubba-Jet
    Need to clarify which part is broken. Does you lathe have a compound rest and cross slide? or just a cross slide? The compound rest was optional on those lathes, and required a different carriage.

    As for the taper I recall it is a #2 morse taper.

    Ray

  3. #3
    Bubba-Jet's Avatar
    Bubba-Jet is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pgh East
    Posts
    24

  4. #4
    Bubba-Jet's Avatar
    Bubba-Jet is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pgh East
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Timekiller its a compound No 16 is a common number on all parts involved

  5. #5
    timekiller's Avatar
    timekiller is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Huntsville, AL U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,110

    Talking compound rest and cross slide

    Hello Bubba-Jet
    You have the compound rest and cross slide option, on a lathe with line shaft legs. Wasn't foot powered.

    The number 16 was a lot number so after final fitting it could be disassembled, painted and reassembled without mixing parts from other machines in the lot. A common practice back then, and still practiced today on some machines.

    Ray

  6. #6
    timekiller's Avatar
    timekiller is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Huntsville, AL U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,110

    Exclamation screw and nut

    The best bet on the cross feed screw may be to to purchase new acme threaded rod and brass nut and modify to fit the lathe. McMaster-Carr is a good source for small quantities of acme threaded rod and matching nuts. Remember the screw is likely has left hand threads. The precision acme is not required for this part. May be better but I couldn't justify the extra expense on this age machine.

    Ray

  7. #7
    Bubba-Jet's Avatar
    Bubba-Jet is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pgh East
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Ray ,Thanks for the Info ,as for the expense heck I only paid $25 for it so a few bucks more wont put Me in the poorhouse .There is a gear hidden under the apron that attaches to said screw that provides power to feed the toolrest for power surfacing.

  8. #8
    Bubba-Jet's Avatar
    Bubba-Jet is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pgh East
    Posts
    24

  9. #9
    Hephaestus72's Avatar
    Hephaestus72 is offline Hot Rolled
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Indiana USA
    Posts
    570

    Default

    25 bucks? you lucky bast@#!

    that's a score!!

  10. #10
    Bubba-Jet's Avatar
    Bubba-Jet is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pgh East
    Posts
    24

    Default

    My dovetail replacent didnt work out . $675 it too much for a 4"x4 1/4"x1 3/8' peice of steel.

  11. #11
    timekiller's Avatar
    timekiller is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Huntsville, AL U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,110

    Exclamation WoW!

    Is that for a finished machined part or just the raw material?

    Also steel is not the best choice of material for this part unless a bearing material is added.

    Ray

  12. #12
    Bubba-Jet's Avatar
    Bubba-Jet is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pgh East
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Finished part, Dovetail on bottom cut end to end ,and dovetail on top to accept round toolrest Base.

  13. #13
    IrbyJones's Avatar
    IrbyJones is offline Hot Rolled
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Poquoson, VA USA
    Posts
    894

    Default

    Bubba-Jet,

    Nice old lathe! Your price can't be beat either!

    You can probably repair (or have repaired) the broken cross slide by cutting off the entire side and bolting a piece on to replace the dovetail section. It's on the gib side, so it can be steel since nothing slides on it. Is the rest of the slide OK?

    And the screw can be repaired by replacing the screw section like has been mentioned. That would save the gear. I have a 13" Barnes also -
    http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m...0inch%20lathe/
    and could get you dimensions of the cross slide nut if you need. I've seen folks fix a nut assembly like this by making an adapter to replace the original nut that has a new nut (bought with the screw) turned down and bonded in place. The space for the nut is tight on your lathe, so that would be an interesting part to make.


    Irby

  14. #14
    Sea Farmer is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Cape Cod, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,622

    Default

    Here's one on Boston CL if anyone is interested. I am absolutely not buying anything until I get my shop completed. It has a broken tailstock, maybe good for spares for one of you.

    http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/tls/865978185.html

  15. #15
    Bubba-Jet's Avatar
    Bubba-Jet is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pgh East
    Posts
    24

    Unhappy It's a No. 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Farmer View Post
    Here's one on Boston CL if anyone is interested. I am absolutely not buying anything until I get my shop completed. It has a broken tailstock, maybe good for spares for one of you.

    http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/tls/865978185.html
    It is a No 5 Guys.

  16. #16
    Bubba-Jet's Avatar
    Bubba-Jet is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pgh East
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Irby I'll take ya up on that offer . Does your cross slide screw measure 19/32 X 6TPI (Left Hand Thread ) ?
    I'm fearing the only place that I can get this made is by a Barnes Owner.

    I quit messen with those pics look a the album at photobucket
    Last edited by Bubba-Jet; 10-05-2008 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Thumbs.

  17. #17
    Bubba-Jet's Avatar
    Bubba-Jet is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pgh East
    Posts
    24

    Default

    I tried to order 2 nuts at McMaster -Carr 5/8 X 6 Acme doesnt fit the Screw.What the heck size is it? My Go -to machinist measured it at 19/32 or.588( Height)and .170 thread to thread. Now they have their guy checking out what might work.
    Last edited by Bubba-Jet; 10-07-2008 at 07:48 PM.

  18. #18
    timekiller's Avatar
    timekiller is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Huntsville, AL U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,110

    Exclamation Different standards

    Barnes did use 1/32" sized materials and standards. 5/8" is .625" also on better quality acme screws in this size range, the major thread diameter will be approximately .010 under the normal or call out diameter. 5/8 would measure approximate .615" actual major diameter. On rolled, not cut, threads the major dimension may vary more.

    You need a 19/32"-6 nut I hadn't run into this problem on a #13 or #5-1/2, but have on other Barnes equipment. Seen a few 1/2"-12 bolts, 1/2"-13 is the standard today.

    Most equipment manufactured 80+ years ago has some odd thread pitches, or size materials. One reason suggested replacing the screw. Get known matched standards. Wear was another reason.

    Ray

  19. #19
    IrbyJones's Avatar
    IrbyJones is offline Hot Rolled
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Poquoson, VA USA
    Posts
    894

    Default

    Bubba_Jet to me,
    Does your cross slide screw measure 19/32 X 6TPI (Left Hand Thread ) ?
    It measures .595" diameter (as near as I can measure) x 6TPI. The screw on mine is pretty ratty except where the slide covered it, and it's worn there. I measured the feed of the screw before I removed the cross slide. The measured and [calculated for 6TPI] feeds were:
    1 turn 0.165 measured [0.167 calculated]
    2 turns 0.333 measured [0.333 calculated]
    3 turns 0.498 measured [0.500 calculated]
    4 turns 0.665 measured [0.667 calculated]
    5 turns 0.831 measured 90.833 calculated]
    So I guess the screw is 6TPI!

    I took the slide off and apart today. I'll post some pictures later. The brass piece that holds the compound slide in place and also acts as the clamp, is an arrangement I haven't seen before. I wonder if all the Barnes lathes used it? Ray will know!

    Irby

  20. #20
    Bubba-Jet's Avatar
    Bubba-Jet is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pgh East
    Posts
    24

    Default Update : ) Metalcaster Found .Diamonds fixes Nut.!

    I finially got My Backyardmetalcasting account working and found someone willing to Cast the slide.Hopefully the mould will be on its way to Oregon by Monday morning. Got a local Machinist that will do the Milling work
    Irby and Ray ,I solved the Cross-Slide screw dilemma.The Cross-Slide screw is one peice ,so that was a much larger peice of metal when it was started. I can see the Lathe marks and there is a machining flaw caused by the operator,He didnt stop the machine on the first or second pass while cutting the threads,and ran the bit up on the shoulder by the Gear .
    Those two 5/8 X6nuts got me thinking.So I drilled one out 1/32 " ,still wouldn't fit then I cut one in half and found what was the problem. The Acme threads are fatter than the screws I found a Needle point Diamond bit and put it in the Dentist drill and Made It Work
    .I tack welded the 4 peices together.It'll Work Just Fine !
    Im still guessing what the post looks like,Irby says his is brass ? then it has to be two peices.what small peice I do have is magnetic and how it's broke sure looks casted to Me.I plan to make it steel .

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •