Nice Hardinge mill on ebay

CBlair · Feb 21, 2004

Ill bet this one wont go for $150.00...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2597967787&category=57037

Charles

Meridian · Feb 21, 2004

Nice machine. I'm not so sure about "Pristine original".
My bet would be it has been repainted. Granted, a very good job was done from what I can see in the pictures, but something about the paint color and finish isn't quite Kosher.
I have a similar vintage machine (w/ original paint) in what I would call very good condition that has a very different look to the finish.
Ofcourse, It could just be that they tend to drown out their photographs with unfiltered light and every bare metal surface looks like it came straight from their wire wheel and scotch-brite department.

Dave

D. Thomas · Feb 21, 2004

Looks nice. Isn't it the oddest thing that Hardinge never made a proper little mill though, considering how nice all their lathes are ? By "proper" I mean one where you don't have to open a base cabinet door and fumble around just to change spindle speeds, a vertical head with moving quill, a knee raising gear set that doesn't break teeth off at the slightest strain...that sort of thing.

vinito · Feb 21, 2004

Ditto. very nice setup!
Based on the condition visible in the photos, I wouldn't be surprised if the paint is original, but I think I see a paint-over where the dividing head has been bolted to the table. Maybe Hardinge sells a touch-up kit.
Lots of interest in this machine already. I will be watching it to see what the final is since I got a similar setup recently.
I am really glad I got the warning from this forum about the knee gear being fragile. Mine is still OK and I plan to be careful with it so it stays that way.
It is strange that hardinge never got to making a mill that matches the incredible usability of their lathes. Maybe they tried and kept drawing up a Bridgeport. "Hell with it. Let's just buy the company".

Question: In the last picture, there is a row of four pieces that I do not know the function (a black disk, a silver pulley-looking thingy, and two gears with extended hubs). What do they do?

p.s. I just noticed - the listing reads that the ways have been "Hand Scrapped". But it looked so purdy!

[This message has been edited by vinito (edited 02-22-2004).]

schwitjh · Feb 21, 2004

Vinito,
The black disk in the back row is the plug that fits into the back of the overarm bore to take the long bolt that draws the vertical head against the column. I don't recognize the other parts.
Jim S.

wrench · Feb 22, 2004

Man! I agree that it might have been repainted, but that is one nice little mill! Even so, at 5 days plus and $3300, I'd have to say that it is going to go pretty high! Sure will be fun to watch though!

--Alan

CBlair · Feb 22, 2004

I seem to remember that the last time one of those dividing heads came up for auction it sold for about $3500 itself. I can immagine someone buying this machine just to get that head if they really want it. Hardinge will make you one if you order it, for about $8000 or so.

Charles

D. Thomas · Feb 22, 2004

but that is one nice little mill!

Just out of curiosity, what's so nice about it ? I mean, it sure looks nice, but as far as actual useability and functions, what is superior about it over, say a Rockwell or Clausing of similar size ? Seems inferior to those two to me.

Barry Briscoe · Feb 22, 2004

It looks like it would be prone to vibration and deflection with that single overhead arm.The table setup doesn't look good either with all that weight on the right side.Maybe a Hardinge owner will chime in.

wrench · Feb 22, 2004

Don,
I probably should have said "cute" instead of nice... From a purely functional perspective, I agree with you. I think I'd probably rather have a Clausing or Rockwell for a fraction of the price! Hardinge lover's don't get me wrong! I'm not saying it isn't functional! It is just my opinion. Whatever your perspective, from an aesthetic value, I think the Hardinge that Reliable has is very pleasing.

Alan

CBlair · Feb 22, 2004

That really nice yellow horizontal with a larger table and probably more power sold for only about $1500. Of course it did not have that very expensive dividing head. I would wonder who would still be useing such a setup. The power feed on the dividing head would normally only be used for helical work. I wouldnt think there are very many people out there who would still be useing this system to do that. The CNC versions would seem much more versitile.

Charles

D. Thomas · Feb 22, 2004

Yep, cute it is. Such a curiosity that Hardinge could conjure up masterpieces like the HLV-H and the HC chucker lathes, but then completely drop the ball on milling machines.

Fascinating to think that somewhere out there in a retirement home perhaps, is some old Hardinge employee that knows exactly how this came to be, but will probably take that knowledge to his grave.

Meridian · Feb 23, 2004

"Just out of curiosity, what's so nice about it ? I mean, it sure looks nice, but as far as actual useability and functions, what is superior about it over, say a Rockwell or Clausing of similar size ? Seems inferior to those two to me."

Right off the bat, it has a universal table.
Combine that with the universal dividing head, and you can run circles around the Clausing and Rockwell mills.
Also has Hardinge quality feed screws and nuts.
I'm not a big fan of the original Hardinge vertical heads. Pain to set up / break down and no quill movment or in/out movement. However, a Bridgeport M-head can easily be adapted.
Additionally, some of the sliding surfaces are hardened.
VS. Rockwell/ Clausing, initial fit and finish is also far superior. Most of the Clausing components were milled, not precision ground.

That said, at $4500 and climbing, you could buy a room full of real horizontals and have money left over for a Bridgeport vertical mill in today's market.

Regards,
Dave

D. Thomas · Feb 23, 2004

it has a universal table.
Combine that with the universal dividing head, and you can run circles around the Clausing and Rockwell mills

Doing what almost no one ever actually does on a mill these days, perhaps. But I was thinking mainly in terms of the way 95 percent of them are found, without the dividing head.

The fit and finish is generally better than the Clausing and Rockwells, but the ways are surprisingly narrow and some parts of the Hardinge are suprisingly delicate. I've run across a number of these over the years with stripped knee gears (absolutely not available from Hardinge, btw), seriously worn ways, and worn out power feed mechanisms.

But perhaps this is not so much because the Hardinge was designed inferior but had more tendency to be used in production situations than the other small mills ? Dunno the answer, just know I've seen my share of worn out Hardinge mills over the years.

[This message has been edited by D. Thomas (edited 02-23-2004).]

wrench · Feb 23, 2004

Dave,
Is $4500 *really* the going rate now for the Hardinge mills? I know that Reliable's will bring top dollar, but most of their stuff does. I don't really consider them to be reflective of the current buying habits of the HSM populace (i.e. what something is worth).

Alan

Meridian · Feb 24, 2004

"Dave,
Is $4500 *really* the going rate now for the Hardinge mills? I know that Reliable's will bring top dollar, but most of their stuff does."

A while ago there was a discussion here about the Agere sale. I had bid $1500 (and lost to a $1750 bidder) on a very Similar Hardinge mill. It was in mint condition and also had the rather rare drive attachment for the dividing head. It did not have the dividing head however. It did have several extra arbors and a vertical head.
My gut feeling was it should retail for $3000-3500, though I figured I'd have to sit on it a while to find a buyer.) Add $1000 bucks for a nice clean Hardinge dividing head and tail stock and we are in the same ball park.

I think the price has a lot more to do with the components than with the mill itself.
There would no doubt be a feeding frenzy over the drive for the dividing head if it were listed seperately. The dividing head itself would be fiercely contested and the vertical head would bring a decent buck as well.

Dave

swampassking · Feb 26, 2004

When I look at this listing I can only imagine that there are a bunch of ignorant hobbiest nut cases who just love going bananas over toys like this while completely missing the good stuff. Want examples? Anyone selling a Moore #3 jig borer without tooling is lucky if they can get $1,500.00.I am talking about possibly the finest manual machine tool in history. Even a Moore 1 1/2 won't normally trade for more than $1,000.00.OK, so the #3 is eight feet tall and weighs 4,000# and the #1 1/2 is seven plus and weighs 2,600#.They aren't exactly cute like that Hardinge but at least they are useful. If you want cute but useless go to the animal shelter and pick up a kitten. The shelter will usually give you a discount on neutering and even with scooping sand cookies and chicken mcnuggets out of a litterbox every few days they are still a better deal than a Hardinge mill. I know: I have three.Cats, I mean, And two Moores.All five are great.

ray french · Feb 26, 2004

Careful Don,I have dibbs on the instigator postion here!

[This message has been edited by ray french (edited 02-26-2004).]

D. Thomas · Feb 26, 2004

Funny post Swamp, but I can't resist pointing out that as unimpressed as I am with Hardinge mills and impressed I am with Moore jig borers, you're not making a very relevant comparison.

Although Moores can be used as mills, they're not ideal due to the table sitting on V ways and the difficulty of adding a power feed on X or Y.

I used a Moore no. 3 for years as a mill and borer but some chatter does occur on heavier cuts. I bought a Servo feed meant for a Bridgeport and had plans to concoct an adapter but never got around to it.

I really like the no. 1 1/2 Moore though...perfect size for home shop, and great machine if cheap and you don't need to take moderate to heavy cuts and don't need table feed.

Come to think of it, that would be a great article for Home Shop Machinist "Making a power feed for the Moore 1 1/2" But suspect they'd prefer an article about making one for a Harbor Freight mill drill out of a washing machine motor or some such.

And then folks would write in about the horror of destroying the accuracy of the screw by milling. You of course do increase the backlash quite a bit by milling on a Moore but the accuracy remains beyond Bridgeport specs after years of milling, in my experience.

[This message has been edited by D. Thomas (edited 02-26-2004).]

Nice Hardinge mill on ebay

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