Any info on a Robofil 300?

We're thinking of buying this machine, for in-house work only. The sales guy says it has 13,000 hours on it, and that it's a 92. Refurbished. Comes with operator training and a 6 mo warrantee. $40,000 We don't know anything about wedm, so what do you guys think? The training is vital to us, since we don't have a clue how to run one of these. Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Gregg

Good machine, as long as it's not clapped out. 'Refurbished' is a good word. Be sure if you purchase it to call Charmilles and give them the serial number and get it registered to you. They keep a record of every machine owner (or at least the ones who register). They won't give you tech help until you update that info.

BTW, if you can find a submerged wire, like a 2030si you'll probably be happier, but the non-submerged to a fine job, too.

I've never run a Charmilles, but know many people who have, and like them very much. They're known for quality machines. They have recently (a year ago?) become part of the George Fisher Group (Agie, Micron, Bostomatic, System 3R, and formerly, Elox, and MecaTool), and more recently, it is now Agie/Charmilles.

It is yet to be seen how well they support older machines under one brand VS another, or both. You can be confident they'll be around for a while. Another plus is there are a lot of these out there, so there is and will continue to be help from non-factory sources.

You are very wise to consider support important, based on your lack of experience. The forum is full of posts from people who bought a lower tier used machine from a private seller, and don't have manuals, schematics, technology settings, system software, and other issues that are difficult to resolve.

It sounds like yours is from a Charmilles dealer, with a factory refurbish? If this is so, it is certainly worth more than a private purchase. You can be sure it's in working condition, or will be, after they help you with the installation. 13K is not a lot of hours for an EDM. 1992 is not the most recent technology, but there are older machines than that, still running.

Do keep in mind that the newer machines have several performace advantages, but for in house work, this may not matter, at all. It's a bigger problem for people who are competeing for EDM work. It's worth noting that TechStar is taking 80's era Agie 315's and "restofying" (hey they made the word up )them. It's because they were, and still are, incredibly accurate.

The Swiss really know how to build fine machine tools.

If you have more questions, fire away.

Cheers!

Roy Solomon

We have three Robofils we purchased new, a 290P, a 510, and a 690. We love them.
Get the serial number BEFORE you purchase the machine and ask Charmilles about it's history.
Charmilles does have great support and even offers PM service on older/used machines, though I don't know how the price for this compares to that of new machines.
This does not apply to all machines though, as they will not even talk to us about our EF22-930's.

Nothing to it dude... It's just a machine. With some training and a little g-code background you'll be fine.
That machine has "Command" language in addition to using regular old G-code. At first you'll hate it, but after a month or so you'll barely ever use g-code again...
Have fun and cut lots of cool stuff. Be sure and play with the twist function. Makes you look like a 4 axis genius!
I agree with an earlier post that said you will wish you had gotten a submersible. Probably every other cut. There is some side flushing lines that come into the cabinet on the right hand side facing the machine. Make a manifold and give yourself about 4 other lines coming out. That will help with big taper cuts.
What are you guys going to be cutting?

What we're cutting is a perforation station for blister card making machines. They require a few long (about 9") slots about .015 wide and .125 deep, with a little hole at the inner end for a "clean out" I believe the material is steel, but I can't see why alum wouldn't work. What material would be the best to use?

Gregg, perhaps I'm a little confused. In your original post you said it's a wire edm, which I believe the machine you're talking about, is.

In your most recent post, you describe the burn as ".125 deep". Do you meant the part is .125 thick, and it's a thru slot? If it's a blind slot, it's a sinker application (and a tough one).

If it's a thru slot, in that cutting heaght, it's a piece of cake.

Cutting aluminum is very hard on your machine. It kills filters, resin, and creates aluminum oxide that coats everything. Even though aluminun cuts faster, if you have the option you're better off cutting high quality steel. Pay a little more for good stuff, steel with a lot of impurities will give you fits. You can almost justify buying tool steel, even if the part stays soft.

Cheers!

The part is about 1" thick, with these "slots" cut into it's face, about .125 deep into the material. I showed the part to the sales guy and he agreed that it was definately a wedm job. Is a chiller a neccessity? I can make the part out of anything, it doesn't matter. It's a die of sorts, where perforation blades come down, and they go into the slots rather than up against a hard stop. The perforation is put onto blister cards for pills so you can break them apart.

I do recommend a chiller. I currently run a sinker that was bought with only a heat exchanger, and it has about .0007 thermal drift through out the day. Even if your current application doesn't require it, you will be frustrated that an otherwise accurate machine will have to "chase" position.

I think I understand the application, now, it sounds like you will be standing the part up, and cutting 9" tall. Make sure the machine you are considering has that much travel.

Cheers!

Hmmm...

Still not sure about your app, but I wouldn't run it without a chiller, a D.I. bottle...or climate control. It will be in a climate controlled room won't it?

yes, our shop has climate control. I believe the machine comes with a resin tank, and everything that makes it go, I wasn't sure about the chiller. I think it is a must.

Then you shouldn't have any problems.

Did you check the machines history with Charmilles? Did you ask about a P.M. program?

We have each of our 5 machines pm'd once a year and they still run like new.

Take a look at this Charmilles 310 I was considering before I ended up buying a new Fanuc. Seems they were willing to take around $40K for it. It looked pretty clean and has good history per serial # record check. Seems to be a few years newer...I bought a used lathe from them that has been trouble free. Ebay item #7608908425

Gregg, Like Wire Wiz said I would definetly look into a 310 They have great z travel and are very user friendly. I've run 310 in every shop I have worked in (3) and have had very few problems with them. The main problem you may have is the fact that it may have a powder break opposed to a magnetic break.