CAM for '97 Robifil 290, 4 axis

We have a 1997 Charmilles Robofil 290 that we are trying to program 4 axis (U & V, upper/lower head)surfaces. Our current CAM package is Surfcam Velocity 3.0 but, we have discovered limitation in the software that Surfware is aware of. What CAM packages are you using with these machines for U & V programming? Does anyone have code for a Robofil 290 that we can compare to? We have tried calling Charmille for 3 days but, no returned calls yet. Our shop is getting very frustrated...

Paul
(email... [email protected])

I use esprit.
What is the limitation?
I can send you G-code but I'll need to know what I'm looking for.

I'd tell you but the moderator will probably just delete my post again....

PCSCHWENKE, which controller does your 290P have? The Charmilles or the Fanuc?

Do you really need 4-axis code or are you simply trying to cut taper?

To use 4-axis code you need to define the Z-height of both program planes on your G92 line.

The Charmilles controller defines the planes with W for X/Y and R for U/V. The Fanuc controller uses J for X/Y and I for U/V.

The X/Y plane will usually be @ table zero. If not, it is defined in absolute from table zero. The U/V plane is defined incrementally from the X/Y plane.

The U/V coordinates will be incremental from X/Y regardless of whether your program is in absolute or incremental.

It is important to note that there are no arc commands possible in 4-axis, at least on these machines. All radial moves will have to be output as extremely short choral movements. The shorter the better, though this can make for very long programs.

On the Charmilles controller no "set-up" codes are necessary. When the controller sees W and R defined it will execute any U/V movements.

On the Fanuc controller you will need to enable 4-axis movement either manually on the Operator settings page or with , I think, an M15 P11 before your G92 line. Disable it with M15 P0.

BrianH, could you be confused? I see that this identical post is here in the EDM forum, and also in the cadcam forum, where you posted your approval of mastercam. Here.

If you posted something that innocous and it got deleted, I'd sure like to know about it.

Cheers!

KilrB,

We really do need 4 axis code. The part is not just tapered but, the taper is changing constantly.

Our machine is the Charmilles control and not the Fanuc.

Thanks for all your advise. You are correct about no arc moves in 4-axis. We learned this the hard way over the past 2 weeks! Looks like the main problem with our parts is that our .ncc post was incorrect and our support for Surfcam was unfamiliar with EDM.

We may have solved most of our problems. Thanks for all your help.

Paul

I may be preachin' to the choir here, but since I don't know how much taper cutting you do I feel obligated to remind you that if your taper angle exceeds 7.5 degrees you should be using soft/half-hard brass and have to change to either the large bore or flat nozzles.

KilrB,

I appreciate all your tips. We are very new to 4 axis EDM work and could use all the pointers we can get! We are crossing our fingers that our part continues to run fine. There were many issues with our part. First off, the drawing was exported from Inventor to Step, to SW. This created lines on top of lines and where arc did not completely touch endpoints of lines. The other issue is that the part is 1" thick with a EDM slot of ~ 0.012" wide in the narrowest area. This also is tapered, creating areas the 0.01" wire could not enter or exit properly. The other issue, is that we did not own a Post for our Charmilles 290 and our Surware rep did not have any idea what it needed. The Rep also did not have any EDM experience. All add up to losing money. We did learn a ton of useful information!

Paul

PCSCHWENKE,

We often run .004" wire on our 290P. I wouldn't dare try that on our 510 or 690 with the spool in the back but with the 290 carrying the spool right up front it's as easy as running .004" wire gets. Of course, you have to have guides and diffusers for .004"...and they ain't cheap...and running .004" is still a PITA, but sometimes nothing else will do the job.

The 290 is a terrific machine, and a dream to program and run.

I cannot recommend any CAD/CAM package as we are using TekSoft's ProCam, which is now an orphan product. I do know that none of them are cheap.

I would also highly recommend contacting Charmilles about a preventive maintenance program.
We have a factory tech come in once a year for each of our machines, and you can tell the difference when he's done.

PCSCHWENKE,

I have learned the hard way that 99% of the time it's best to redraw the geometry from scratch rather than try to use a customer's existing CAD work (whether native or exported). This holds especially true in 4-axis work.

CAM packages (in my experience) seem to be much less tolerant of "iffy" geometry when doing 4-axis work... probably has something to do with the aforementioned method of all arcs getting converted to sequential straight-line moves.

Additionally, it's sometimes desirable to add a few extra elements to the geometry in key locations in order to get match lines positioned correctly or conveniently. (IMO).

Glad you're up and running!

PM

If/When you have a tech in to look at your machine, make sure they center the U/V-axis so that you have the same amount of movement each direction.

While this is not usually a problem, if you are maxing out your taper it will be.