Bridgeport CNC

What about a bridgeport knee mill with a Centroid 400 CNC system ? Would that be a quality CNC system capable of prototype and one-off work ? Has a 2 hp motor. Would that be to flimsy for steel work ? Would that be better than goint with a Haas or Fadal CNC toolroom mill ? Any opinions from the cnc people on this ?

thanks
noahjlb

Noahjlb;

If you can you really should look at a bed mill instead of a knee mill. It is a little easyer to work with than the manual adjusting knee. I would also suggest that unless you already know the maximum size of the part you wish to make, choose a mill with a larger Y axis. The ones you mention are limited to about 12 inchs of Y axis travel.

Just my informed opinion.

Charles

I think those little Haas toolroom mills are cute! I'd be carefull with the older not so well known named controllers. Cheap, but little to no support I'm guessing.

I would like to think that the Haas would have a WHOLE LOT more Z, which is very important for multiple tools.

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

The Centroid control is an excellent control with great tech support and parts support. It is American made and I would highly recomend it to anyone that is just starting out or even just wants a control that is more user friendly.

The Hass is inded cute, but it only has 12 inches of Y axis travel. That is fine if you only ever intend to use a vise but for most people I believe that is just to limiting. A machine with 14 to 16 inches of travel is far more useful. I can not count how many times I have had to square up a 12 x 12 inch plate and it is so much faster if you have a little more travel.

There is a shop not far from us that has bought a Hass toolroom mill and he likes it. All except for the lack of Y axis travel.

Charles

My vote is always for a machining center with tool changer. You get more Y and Z as well as more rigidity. Having an enclosure sure is nice to keep the coolant and chips where they belong. I use my VF3 for everything from the very simple to the very complex. When properly tooled it is hard to beat a toolchanger full of strategic tools waiting ready to work. Pick a brand that is well represented in you area and go for it.

Take Care
ARB

[This message has been edited by ARB (edited 04-28-2003).]

I have a '95' Mazak 20x40x20 machining center and a Haas toolroom mill, everyone in the shop prefers the M... if you're only gonna make itty-bitty parts, the Haas is as good as the package that comes with it and the care it has had. We beat the crap out of our Mazak and it hasn't given up a bit.....I heard there are more Haas machines in storage a the moment then are currently in production. That's not a great statement about the popularity or durability of even an inexpensive machine.

Well, i gotta respond to Brutus on this one. I don't have any vested interest in Fadal or Haas and i do want useful input but...maybe the problem with this forum is there is too great a mix of metal cutters here from hobbyists to small machine shops to occasional production machinists all giving advise about various things each comming from a totally different perspective. I have a regular job that puts the bread on the table and my machining is a part-time job that brings in enough to pay for the habit. I do one-offs mostly. For example, if i want a motorcyle part for a vintage bike, i can search thru my sources and maybe two months later and for an outrageous price i can get it. Or i can go to my machinist pal with a cnc lathe and mill and he makes it so it looks just like it came out the Hinckley factory in 1970. Or i buy my own cnc machine. Well, I look at this gigantic Haas toolroom cnc mill weighing over 3000lbs. and i hear guys on this forum saying "too light a machine". for what ? i am not making 5000 parts 8 hours per day and i'm not building a space shuttle. Yes, I have been known to put a motorcycle crank case on my deckel and cut on it..successfully i might add and that's with a deckel fp1. How then can this monster sized Haas cnc be such a pussey ? I would love to have a machining center with a 10hp motor, who wouldn't ? can't afford it or justify it. Maybe there is a small shop owner out there or serious hobbyist who can give me some advice.

Noahjlb;

Perhaps it should be noted that everyone has their own likes and dislikes and therefore you are going to get a lot of opinions. No one but you can make the decision that you are asking for help on but you. It must be your own research and I suggest you check out as many dealers in your own area as possible.

As far as my experiance, I looked for three years checking out tradeshows and getting demos at vendors shops. It took me that long to convince the company owner that we needed one. As far as the owner of our company was concerned, price was the most important thing for him with the exception that he demanded a new machine. He did not want to take a chance on an old one. These two factors limited our choices considerably.

It came down to weighing price and options over power and ridgidity. The Hass tool room mill is nice but it only has about 12" of Y axis travel. I build a lot of parts that are larger than that so that ruled out Hass and the Bridgeport knee mills. When I looked at the type of options I felt we needed all of the large frame VMC's were outside of our budget. I did decide early on that the bed mill was far superior to the knee mill for our use. If you are only going to make one or two parts a day or use the mill infrequently then manually adjusting the knee will not be a problem for you. I on the other hand make 6 to 10 different parts a day and I need all the capability I can get.

Now the moral of the story, I wound up getting a bed mill from Atrump with a Centroid M400 control. I got the tool preseter and the touch probe options and I can tell you that I love them both. Of all of the controls that I researched the Centroid was the easiest to use and the most user friendly. The Proto trak was a little clumsy and I did not like the graphic capability as well. The only other machine that would work for what we wanted and had as good of a control are the mills from Milltronics. I actually prefered the Milltronics machine but they cost more and the touch probe from Renishaw was just to expensive.

I am very happy with the machine we have, it has paid for itself within the first year and I would gladly recomend it to anyone who does not need the speed and power of a full production mill.

I know this has been a long letter but maybe I have answered some of your questions. If you want to talk to me about some other machines or some of the things that I have researched I will be glad to speak to you personaly or better yet start a new thread and we can converse here on this board.

Best of luck to you
Charles Blair
678-287-2431 7am-3pm est
[email protected]

As far as Brutus's response, i did not mean to be rude. he did not have to take the time to help me out and i appreciate his advice. I just wanted to clarify where i was coming from.

As to C.Blair's comments. Absolutely, amazing. talk about deja-vu. I have looked at Haas, Fadal, Millport (Rhino), Accu II, milltronics, Tree, Ameritech exact mills and Atrump and others and my number one choice so far is the Atrump B3EC with a centroid controller. The sales rep in my area has made me a nice package offer on one of these. And like your boss i would prefer a new machine because i am so tired of fixing up used machines. I love the ease of use of the centroid and if i get a machine without a centroid controller i have to face getting a renishaw probe which is more costly and then you have to spend two years trying to figure out which one of their many probes you need. See! i knew someone would come along with some help or maybe i am just hearing what i want to hear. Well at least i know that you are pleased with a system that i ranked right at the top of my choices and you have had hands on experience with that system. Maybe i will go with the atrump on the other hand there are a lot of tree journeyman cnc knee mills out there at great prices and though the company went chapter 11 there are still vendors selling parts for both the mills and the dynapath controllers. But i do like the centroid and do not want to deal with renishaw.

my thanks to C.Blair. you have been most helpful.

What a can of worms! As you said to many opinions and views, could make a guys brain hurt. At any rate, I have asmall machine shop that is my bread and butter. I used a Bridgeport with a boss5 control for years. Was it clumsey? you bet, did it do the job? Every day! The reason I got it and kept and used it was I needed a cnc, it was priced right and served the purpose. Sometimes it wasn't big enough, sometimes it wasn't fast enough, sometimes it was just right. I recently graduated to an anilam knee machine, it is not what I wanted but again priced right and it serves the purpose. Is the control clumsey? Yes more so than a new haas or fadal or centroid. Do I have a lease payment? Nope. Can I live with it. You betcha. And besides I program off line with a cad system so it doesn't really matter how clumsey the control is because I only use it to set up with anyways. So....... Follow your gut, buy what you can afford and dont forget to use your head when it comes to using your machinery to the fullest.
Fred T

I have to agree with the last post. Buy what your gut tells you. Who really cares if the controller is clunky? You will most likely be using some sort of inexpensive cam package. (at least I do) The little Haas toolroom mill will serve you well. A small Milltronics will probably do also. (I have a milltronics.. I don't like it that much comparably, but it has been taking a beating since 96) Buy what you can pay off quick. Since you are not using it in a production environment, it does not have to be the fastest or the heaviest thing. A machine with handles for the axis's is a nice feature. It will allow you to use the machine as a bigger manual mill. I do this every day. Best of luck with whatever you decide. Doug.

I took delivery of a Haas Toolroom Mill last August. I make model & hobby products with it and the occasional race car gearbox as a hobby. The machine has ample capability for what I'm doing with it and I would buy it again. I have had no mechanical problems with it in the 300 or so hours of on time and have only uncovered one programing glitch which isn't worth the follow up phone call to Haas since the guy couldn't help me the first time. The machine has the toolchanger, coolant pump, and table guard. It can get messy at times.

Jeff