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DNC to an Old Deckel

Sean S

Titanium
Joined
Dec 20, 2000
Location
Coos Bay, OR
Heya!
I have an 84 Deckel FP-2NC with a Dialog 2 control.
This control is the sort where it has an audio connector (stereo phono) to transfer programs to cassette tape. The tones this generates are similar to low speed modem tones (warbles and blip, no HS hiss).

In another transfer mode, the control uses the same plug to transfer to paper tape or printer. The tones from this are low frequency and sound the same as when I transfer out of the computer at 300 baud.

(basically I have listened via headphones to the PC when transmitting and to the control while transmitting...pretty scientific eh?)

Since I have no idea *what* protocol the control is outputing, nor at what speed, listening was my best bet at at least determining the baud rate...which seems to be 300.

Now, the DNC software will recieve characters from the control but they are garbage (nothing resembling the program). Changing the baud rate on the PC, or changing the bit style (7 or 8, stop bits.. ASCII, ISO, EIA etc.) will of course change the characters I get, but sadly, all combinations I've tried are trash.

More clues:
The Deckel documentation states to/from paper tape or *to* printer, which leads me to think that they are saying they don't mean a paper tape printer or punch (but who knows), which leaves whatever protocol an early '80 printer would use (which I have no clue)

There is an accesory listed as a "programming center" which I believe to be a terminal although no pic's of it are in the documentation. This could be a proprietary unit which understands this protocol, or just a garden variety terminal which likely had "Deckel" stuck on it and used a common protocol of the time....again...unknown.

The control documentation shows no provision for remote access, and the procedure to transfer a program involves completely manual steps (ie Press transfer after starting cassette tape or paper tape), which leads me to believe that no handshaking is involved. (the control will start it's signal even with nothing hooked up but my headphones).

The documentation has very limited specs on this "programming center" terminal thingy which state this:

===========================
'Programm-Zentrale'
NC programming unit

Technical data:

Storage capacity 24kb
backup battery 170h
modes of operation 9

Program input MDI, Input from tape or from machine control.

Interfaces 20mA, V24(RS232)Kansas city

Connection of monitor via plug connector (BAS)

Max cable length to machine 200m

This external programming unit permits the preparation of comprehansive NC programs without requiring valuable machine time.

The programming unit is connected with one or, via data selectors, any number of machines and can thus transmit programs to, and receive programs from, each machine.

A cassette recorder, external display screen, and terminal can be connected via serial interfaces.

=============================

Ok, so the easy answer is, this unit translates proprietary format Deckel characters into something useable.... OR... it's just a terminal (which makes more sense)
The documentation in other parts of the book does not state that you need this unit to "export" programs to cassette or paper, or printer (did they forget to mention that?) It simply sounds like a unit that lets you type your program...but who knows?

The feeling I am getting is that the control is simply sending character which are not being properly translated by the DNC software. Perhaps it is a standard which is too old for the dnc to have included?

Any ideas?

Thanks
Sean
 
it is probably a 25 pin rs-232 port. Nothin harder to configure than rs-232 without a clue for baud, etc. I do have some questions though....
1. what are you using for com software? I have best luck figuring out baud, parity, and stop bits using procomm plus than any dnc software.
2. I'd say the baud rate may be 1200 or 2400, but basically you will be trying them all.
3. There may be cnc parameters in the control to set baud rate, parity, etc. for communications. Do you have a parameter manual for this control?
4. perhaps Mr. Thomas has some literature in his archives that could shed some light on your dilemma, being a fellow Deckel-haulic. ( I am addicted to cincinnati's...).
5. do a cold shut down every time you change parameters so you know the new settings take effect.

[This message has been edited by WILLEO6709 (edited 07-04-2003).]
 
The mill itself has only the metric equivilent of a 1/4" stereo phono plug... three wires.
For the audio, this is simply a common ground and 1 wire for TX and the other for RX.
The control uses this same plug for the "serial" communication...same plug, same three wires... which should be OK since that's all most older CNC's need.

My documentation not only doesn't show any parameters, but also no screen or mode you could change them in. It appears to be "fixed" and doesn't bother to mention what they are "fixed" at.
It seems like they would be using standard RS protocols by 82 but these don't seem to work. Could be TTY, or even a proprietary format.

I just threw this out there in the hope that somebody would go "yeah, some of those machines use Kermit to speak to printers of that era and you should set it like *this*", or something. Just a last ditch effort before I start hunting down the long since retired Deckel engineers to discover what the darned bit train represents.

The later model Deckel NC's are standard (7 bit, even parity, 1 stop...etc), and later only means by a year or two, but these type settings (even 8 bit, odd, whatever) don't work.
It *is* however, a bit stream...which is what keeps me from giving up hope that it is following some yet undiscovered standard of the day.

Sean
 
The early NC Deckel controls do not loose parameters when the backup battery dies, as they are permenantly* encoded on EPROM chips. Hence the possible reason Deckel did not bother to publish the parameters.


*At least in theory. After 25 years or so, they can break down. Or if some doofus is poking around in there and sez "hey, what's this little sticker on the chip ?...Here, hold my beer while I peel it off and shine a flashlight on it"...you're in big trouble, as the light will "reset" the whole shebang
 
Sean: Where have ya been? I suspect the format is TTY....but i don't know for sure. Get yourself a nice twx machine, hook her up and give that a try! Or maybe a call to Volker Spitz at DMG will answer this question. I have a copy of a com program from Deckel, maybe there is somthing in that that could help you...I got it from Volker whe i first got my machine. I will dig it out and see if that has anything you could use. Cheers Ross
 
Thanks Ross, although I'm pretty sure your D4 uses a more standardized 7 bit even parity 1 stop sort of setup.
I'm sort of suspecting TTY but the DNC app' I'm using won't go there.

Might have to go the DMG route to figure this out.

Sean
 
Sean: Do you have the ability to run "real DOS" on your computr? If so i will send along a copy of the "Deckel" IO program. It might help decode your code. Ross
 
Ross,
I'd very much appreciate that. Worse case scenerio, I will dig up a computer which will work with the app'.
As you say, it might be a useful tool in discovering what the heck the control is sending. Is it emailable?

Thanks
Sean
 
Much appreciated Ross.
I've aquired the German version, but heck if I can get it to work.

Where is that darned magic lamp when ya need it?

Sean
 








 
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