jumping in with both feet (deckel fp3cnc)

Gentlemen,
I am looking for some input from some of
you with the experience. I am totally new
to CNC but have a manual mill and lathe
and enjoy that. I am considering purchasing a Deckel fp3 cnc mill with siemens sinumerik
control. I want to get into this as a sideline of sorts and take it from there.
Is this a good place to start or no?
I know a bit acout computers and g code
and how it controls the machine.
Opinions needed please, Thanks, Burt

Burt: Where to begin......well here is what i think: I have been running a Deckel FP4NC since 92'. My machine has the dialog 4 control. My sense is that the machine is very good, better iron than most of the machines out there. The way they move (the "Y" axis not on the knee) is more rigid than a knee mill. The use of direct reading glass scales on all 3 slides gives an accurate move even with ball screw wear! The machines are built heavier and more rigid than most machines in their size range!
However they have some limitations: First if you are going to cut aluminum with small tools you will be somewhat hindered. The max spindle speed for the early FP machines is 3150 RPM. There are some that have a manual 2 range shift that allows the vertical spindle to run at 6300 RPM. Be prepaired, Deckel parts and service are very pricey....rebuilt logic cards for the dialog control cost $3500.00 or more exchange! The "Z" ballscrew is in use for all depth moves, so if the machine was used for peck drilling a million holes you may want to be sure the vertical slides and screw are in good shape!
I am not familiar with the 3m control other than looking over the programming manual, but i can say that it looks less user friendly than the Dialog series! You may want to see if the machine has an RS232 port for communication with a computer. Doing all your programs at the keyboard of the control gets old fast! I do know that the 3M will not do DNC (drip feed from a computer) so you are limited to the size of program that the memory of the control will hold! All that said, they are butiful machines, very versitle wit the 2 spindles and all. I wouldn't trade my FP4NC for a truck load of Bridgeports, Fadels, of Haws...(this will most likely start some trouble) But for me the Deckel just works! Good luck, visit the Deckel group for more information....check out the post on the FP3NC toolholders there is a guy there that has the same machine that you are thinking of buying.

Ross

Excuse me. Just wondering, how much for a Deckel and what is the envelope of the #3 and #4?
Thanks,
Tim

First off, thanks to all for responding to my post. The machine I am looking at is a 1984 model fp3nc, a little old maybe but I can't afford a new one. It will run with CAT40, BT40, and NMTB40(with groove turned in it). The Siemens Sinumerik is a full 3d
contouring control and has a communication port for offline programming. The machine is listed as very sound both electrically and mechanically and in very good condition.
As far as spindle speeds go, couldn't one
install some new high speed bearings and
belt up the drive speed to run faster if
one so desired? Also, I would think one
could add some memory to the machine if
needed. I figure on spending about 10k
by the time I get it running with a medium
amount of tooling. The fp3 footprint appears to be about 6 feet wide and maybe 5 feet deep. I suppose there are lots of machines to contemplate on but I am particularly impressed with the design and engineering in this type of mill. I am trying to match my imagination with a machine I guess and hoping for the best.
It is somewhat difficult because I have
never seen a cnc mill in action other
than photos on the web. At any rate, I appreciate this site and it's ability to
share information here is really great in
itself. I am not sure on the mill yet and
will have to kick it around a bit yet.
Again, thanks to all for posting and enjoy the day. Burt

Tim: The cutting envelope for the FP4NC is: X 22" Y 18" Z 18" The FP3NC is X 16" Y 13" Z 16".

Burt: Two points: First on a Deckel there are no replaceable "High Speed Bearings" The spindle bearings have needle rollers and the races (both inner and outer) are ground directly on the ID of the Quill and the OD of the spindle. There are oversize rollers avaliable to get the fit correct. For a major rebuild grinding of spindle and quill are required. ( however this rarely needs doing). You could use a speed increaser between the spindle and the tool toi get the spees needed for small tools.
Doug is correct about the control...you will not find parts or service for this at the local supermarket! Memory upgrades will require a mew circut board.. expect to pay $5,000 ar more for this ! This is an industrial electronic tool, made in limited numbers and supported by the parrent company only! In fact you would be well advised to call DMG (the Deckel People) and ask about the avaliability of parts and service for that control! The machine will be very trouble free...Keep the oil filled and change all the way wipers every year. The electronics are another story!!!

DMG Service No. Carolina 704-583-1193 ask for Mr. Volker Spitz

Ross

Im an owner of an fp3nc with the sinumerik control. And board failure is by far my biggest concern. I know there are a fair number of the fp*nc machines out there with dialog and sinumerik controls and failures are going to become more frequent as time goes on. Ive been casting about for a suitable control to fit. Siemens has an 802c for about 3k that might be comparable to the original control in capabilitys. I wonder if putting together some sort of control kit for these machines might be worth while pretty soon.
Else were going to see a lot of controlless for sale eventually!

hello everyone
i have a facility to repair all kinds of electronic cards for dialog2, dialog 3,dialog 4 and all dialog series plus and kind of deckel cards. i also have a huge inventory of electronic cards and deckel accesories. if anyone needs my services. let me know.

IMHO buying an old Deckel like that would be a good way to learn cnc machines from the 80s but not a good way to learn current cnc machining... think of it like buying a vintage Mercedes or Porsche for everyday transportation... maybe a good way to get to know everyone in the Deckel club.

I know a fellow who has a couple of those machines and trying to use them to make parts in todays world is hard way to earn money.

They are really cool machines in their own right, no doubt about that.

But if ou're interested in modern cnc machining, then save a bit more money and look at the entry level Haas/Hurco/Fadal products.

If you have even a bit of bad luck with the Deckel you could easliy end up spanding just as much money on it as a new machine would cost.

Just be aware, our new associate, from Mumbai has dragged up this retired thread from June 2003

Common to most of his posts.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=recent_user_posts;u=00014081

Wheres Ox when you need him?

-Phil.