What's new
What's new

considering a Fadal EMC

HackAsaw

Cast Iron
Joined
May 14, 2003
Location
Hartsville TN
although I can see the benefits of a larger table along with more motion like found on the 4020 but at 30K new, it looks like it could pay for itself with relative ease. Is it available with a high speed spindle?

Any thoughts on the HAAS machines or other likely deals on tooled up and ready to run used ones?

What about the latest or relatively new tool holder that appears to but square up against the spindle as opposed to the conventional CAT items? Any thoughts? I'm told they 40 taper size is as strong as a conventional 50 taper.
 
oh, and before I get the backs of my hand smacked with a splintered ruler for not disclosing my location......


I'm standing in my living room naked, oh in Hartsville TN

here is my phone number too

615-374-9709
 
this machine is in Califonicate

why is the x and y gizmos noisey?

is there any truth to possibility the thrust bearing adjustment being all it needs
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2544798218&category=25276

ok, so I forgot the link

here is a picture too

kv3.jpg


looks like it would make one heck of a milkshake
 
Noisy movement likely means itneeds new thrust bearings. Probably not likely to break the bank.

I am sitting in the office in my shop in NW Ohio, fully dressed, but wishing not. (muggy)

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
There are tons of nice used CNCs out there. There are also some real stinkers. If you know what to look for you can get a real nice machine for very little money. I started looking for something in the EMC and the Haas VF 0 size but I ended up looking around in machinetools.com and found a real sweet VF3. It is a 1994 machine with very low hours, a half full tool changer and a 40 x 20 Midaco pallet changer. The whole lot delivered for less than the price of my F150!
biggrin.gif
The pallet changer alone is 22 grand.
If you are patient and have some knowledge of these machines you can have a real nice addition to your garage that does not break the bank.

Sittin back in my recliner partially clothed

ARB


[This message has been edited by ARB (edited 07-17-2003).]
 
Interesting there is one of those mythical "white" Hardinge's I mentioned some time back. Where are those machines...in a KMart ??
 
well, I'm spending several hours each week currently running a Fadal 4020 with all the goodies. Frankly, it's impressive.

So let's cut to the chase, how much for me to pay you guys for all your CNC knowledge so when and if I find out, I'll know it's the one?

If a machine is under power...... what are some basic simple tests that should reveal much about the machine without having to dismantle it or spend all day pissing up a rope?

It's unfortunate I am somwhat out of the industrial loop in Nashville since going there kills half a day even if I don't do anything and around here, there isn't much in the way of deals for CNC stuff.

There is a guy that has a huge wicked tombstone machine with many many axis(s?) but I don't think he wants to get rid of it nor do I think I want the headache involved in trying to program something like that.

Simple and effective is all and not opposed to a larger machine even if it currently meant I'd have to park even more bikes in my house.
 
and I am in the office fully clothed enjoying a break from the metal carnage

now I am going back across the street to fire up the tig, I will put on a blue and white checker board pattern long sleeve shirt and will be sitting in my welding chair

I can provide latitude and longitude coordinates.

Oh, since I've been very open about disclosing my location
smile.gif


does anyone have or know of a deal on a good machine?
 
so can you explain to me what a pallet changer does?

I'll stab at it because I've been skimming thru some machinery mags when I've been ahead of the Fadal

Is it like another table set up with jigs and parts as to be loaded/cycled by the operator while the other pallet is being run..... and then automatically cycled in when the current batch has been run?

The multi pallet tombstone machines are really interesting for sure but I think my head hurts just thinking about conducting that orchestra.
 
Thats it in a nutshell.Check this site out.
www.midaco-corp.com These things are great for both production and everyday use. Put a vise and 3 Jaw on one pallet and use the other for general hold down type work. There is the side benifit to not have to lean into the machine while you are building your next set up. Which by the way can be done while the spindle is still cutting metal.

Have fun looking into machinery.

ARB
 
Hack, I'd be wary of giving out your exact coordinates as the aluminum pallet police may be hot on your trail
smile.gif


Re Fadal 4020, having owned that exact model, I wouldn't be too impressed. I hate to say it, but one can buy a used European or Jap or even (gasp) Tawainese machine that is constructed much better, for much less money in the used market. I sold a 1994 Fadal 4020 for $26,000 for instance, and couldn't get that much for a 1999 Takumi Seiki 11V with Fanuc 18 control. Both machines similar travels, but the Takumi weighed 16,000 lbs, compared to the Fadals 9,500 lbs, and was constructed much better with much better control. I thought the Fadal was in pretty good shape when I bought it, but found out later it had numerous "issues"...worn leadscrews, thrust bearings and such.

But my less than stellar opinion of Fadal and Haas machines is not based just that one experience, but from talking with various owners of same in the past few years. Bottom line is they are usually fine machines new, have good support...but kinda like a wood boat...they ~must~ be maintained on regular basis if using them evey day, or they go to heck quickly.

Now, if I happen across another Fadal that I've forced to buy, my opinion may mysteriously become more favorable...
wink.gif
 
I like the Cincinnati arrow series machines with the a2100 controls( 1995 and newer). They will do anything you will likely want to do in a vertical. As for the pallet changers, they allow you to always be cutting chips, with either longer continuos unattended operation or higher percentage of the day in cut. for example, a twin pallet machine running 2 4 sided tombstones and the program running is 1 hour per tombstone face. Once both poallets are loaded it runs a whole shift by itself. You could be at the strip club and making $50.00 per hour..... Now a 6 pallet machine with 6 sided tombstones running 1 hour per face programs, that would be 36 hours more or less unattended if your tooling could stand that length in continuous cut.
 
Good point about the Arrows. We have 2 here at work. The older Arrow 500 one has about 20,000 hours on it and never gives a problem. If you have a good dealer I say go for it. My only complaint about them is sometimes Cinci is out of stock of critical components. We had it happen twice for our Arrow 2000. You will be hard pressed to find a better control than the A2100. Once you get used to it you will wonder why all machine makers don't offer it.

By the way Action Machinery in PA has a real nice Arrow 500 for 22 grand.

http://www.actionmachinery.com/writeups/15132.htm


Later
ARB
 
Willie, you could be making $50.00 an hr. while at the strip club, but how much would you be spending an hr???? I would go broke that way.
rolleyes.gif
 
I run a lot of lights out on my verticals. My horizontals are shorter cycle parts that tie you to the machine pretty bad. those horizontal pallet changers run about $350k new for a 6 pallet machine, but if you can get enough parts on it to run 24/5 with only 1 shift of employees it pays off pretty quick. The catch is you have to be confident of your setup and your tool life or you lose more than you save in scrap. The key is to have the machine running while you are doing something else you are also getting paid for, increasing your billable hours. It depends on the machine what it costs to operate per hour. My guess is a HMC will cost $3-5.00 per hour plus operator expenses. If you can have 1 person loading 2 or 3 of these you can roll some pretty good cash in a hurry. Leasing a brand new Maxim 500 Cincinnati HMC figures less than $10.00 per hour at 120 hours per week.

[This message has been edited by WILLEO6709 (edited 07-18-2003).]
 
ok guys...... I love all this stuff and do let me know how much this is costing me and I also want to know how much money your machine is making you while I am paying as well.
smile.gif


now for any basic tests to confirm a machines uselfullness or lifespan left.....???

Oh, I usually make about 250 bucks an hour when I work at the strip club..... I'm really getting tired of the smell at the retirement club and if one more 82 year old chippy slaps me on the fanny for only a dollar....

I'll likely punch her in the head ...

just kidding some

Oh...... D Thomas.... what are some of these "furrin" machines that could be viable candidates? I like the idea of the pallet changer for sure.
 
ok....... did some studying on the Takumi

one..... it has a funny name

two...... it's 50 taper which means it will have some heavy duty spindle to maintain and some serious tool changer stuf happening

three..... spindle speed is only 4000 max...... is that fast enough or is such a machining center really for much larger stuff

I doubt I'll be making any parts larger than a bread box..... my friend was sharing that wisdom with me earlier this week and it makes sense
 








 
Back
Top