Haas GT20 lathe; any good?

implmex · Jan 14, 2008

Hi All:
I've been looking at CNC lathes again and flipping between hybrids like the Prototrak versus something like the Haas GT20.
I'd originally dismissed the Haas as a "neither fish nor fowl" kind of machine but I'm looking with somewhat different eyes now.
I notice it's available with Caxis (indexing only) and has lots of swing over the cross slide, unlike most other gang machines.
On the other hand, the X axis stroke is awfully short for a gang machine; only 6 inches...about the same as a Prototrak, and Z at only 12 inches with no tailstock.
Where it's got machines like the Prototrak beat hands down is the enclosure, the bar feed interface, the hydraulic collet closer option, and the C axis option.
I do a mix of prototype turning and a bit of production...the production has all been small stuff suitable for a 5C collet type chucker and I've been nursing an Emco PCturn 120 along on these jobs with workable but not stunning success.
The Emco is not a bad machine but awfully limited...no spindle thru hole therefore no bar feed or collet capability, steppers instead of servos, a pretty limited control, no C axis, an 8 position turret so small I can't mount a drill chuck etc etc.
It's time to upgrade, and I'd really like the versatility of something like a TL1, but the construction of the TL1 is so crummy and the machine is so limited that I just can't bring myself to place the order.
I'd like to be able to mount the occasional live tool together with a simple gang setup...it'd also be nice to be able to turn a 6" diameter mold core, and then turn a batch of #4:40 screws for one of my customers.
The spindle speed is reasonable at 4K, the rapids are pretty good at 750 IPM and the envelope is about right for my needs.
I've run very few jobs that need a tailstock...none of them have been production jobs, so I don't think I'd miss the tailstock.
So, my question is: have any of you run one of these? Are they any good?
At 25K (39K all dressed up with bar feed interface and hydraulic clamping plus C axis) the price is comparable to a Prototrak but I think I'd get more machine with the Haas.
Opinions anyone??
Cheers

Marcus

D. Rey · Jan 14, 2008

I've looked at them too.

By the time I option one out I'm well into SL-10 territory price wise (41k) where I might as well add a tail stock and be done with it.

The price needs to be 7-10 less for that GT-20 to get me to bite.

I've never seen one on the used market.

Dave

SIM · Jan 14, 2008

I looked at them too.
I think your "Not A fish, nor a Fowl" summed up my attitude as well. I was set to buy the gang tool setup they had, but then this "Nothing-Yet Everything" model came into play and I just said the hell with it.

It still intrigues me, especially now that you mention the C axis option.

Perry Harrington · Jan 14, 2008

That HAAS sounds like an attempt to get CHNC users over to the dark side. The CHNC is a 6x12 machine too. The difference is that a working used one is $7k, $15 fully tooled with a bar feed. The CHNC machines are also from a "simpler" time. If you are a mechanically inclined fellow, you can do your own maintenance.

All that said, the CHNC has limitations and machine hiccups are an expected thing. However, after using one of these for over a year, I love it. I can turn stainless up to 5" in diameter and do small bar work in the same day. They sure are built sturdy.

It's for that reason that I'm seriously considering putting down $70-80k on a used hardinge when I can get my new shop built. Live tooling with sub spindle would just make my day. With a sub spindle you've got a built in bar puller.

DobermanDave · Jan 14, 2008

Perry Harrington said:
That HAAS sounds like an attempt to get CHNC users over to the dark side. The CHNC is a 6x12 machine too. The difference is that a working used one is $7k, $15 fully tooled with a bar feed. The CHNC machines are also from a "simpler" time. If you are a mechanically inclined fellow, you can do your own maintenance.

All that said, the CHNC has limitations and machine hiccups are an expected thing. However, after using one of these for over a year, I love it. I can turn stainless up to 5" in diameter and do small bar work in the same day. They sure are built sturdy.

It's for that reason that I'm seriously considering putting down $70-80k on a used hardinge when I can get my new shop built. Live tooling with sub spindle would just make my day. With a sub spindle you've got a built in bar puller.

Yep I bought a new CHNC in 1992 to replace my 1980 CHNC (AB control). It's still running today & will hold .0003 all day.

DobermanDave · Jan 14, 2008

implmex said:
Hi All:
I've been looking at CNC lathes again and flipping between hybrids like the Prototrak versus something like the Haas GT20.
I'd originally dismissed the Haas as a "neither fish nor fowl" kind of machine but I'm looking with somewhat different eyes now.
I notice it's available with Caxis (indexing only) and has lots of swing over the cross slide, unlike most other gang machines.
On the other hand, the X axis stroke is awfully short for a gang machine; only 6 inches...about the same as a Prototrak, and Z at only 12 inches with no tailstock.
Where it's got machines like the Prototrak beat hands down is the enclosure, the bar feed interface, the hydraulic collet closer option, and the C axis option.
I do a mix of prototype turning and a bit of production...the production has all been small stuff suitable for a 5C collet type chucker and I've been nursing an Emco PCturn 120 along on these jobs with workable but not stunning success.
The Emco is not a bad machine but awfully limited...no spindle thru hole therefore no bar feed or collet capability, steppers instead of servos, a pretty limited control, no C axis, an 8 position turret so small I can't mount a drill chuck etc etc.
It's time to upgrade, and I'd really like the versatility of something like a TL1, but the construction of the TL1 is so crummy and the machine is so limited that I just can't bring myself to place the order.
I'd like to be able to mount the occasional live tool together with a simple gang setup...it'd also be nice to be able to turn a 6" diameter mold core, and then turn a batch of #4:40 screws for one of my customers.
The spindle speed is reasonable at 4K, the rapids are pretty good at 750 IPM and the envelope is about right for my needs.
I've run very few jobs that need a tailstock...none of them have been production jobs, so I don't think I'd miss the tailstock.
So, my question is: have any of you run one of these? Are they any good?
At 25K (39K all dressed up with bar feed interface and hydraulic clamping plus C axis) the price is comparable to a Prototrak but I think I'd get more machine with the Haas.
Opinions anyone??
Cheers

Marcus

Ck out the Yang SML-12. 9" X . I bought one in 1997 & it's still going. No C axis.

Video of it running here: 16C collet A5 1440 rapids, Fanuc OTD, hyd chuck.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7287299016818694459

Tonytn36 · Jan 14, 2008

DobermanDave said:
Ck out the Yang SML-12. 9" X . I bought one in 1997 & it's still going. No C axis.

Video of it running here: 16C collet A5 1440 rapids, Fanuc OTD, hyd chuck.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7287299016818694459

'lo Dave, thought I recognized that OIL......heh

SIM · Jan 14, 2008

Are you sure the GT has C axis motion.

I looked thru everything and it seems the only machines with C Axis control are VDI turrets. Something I did not see as an option for the GT's. They only show the bolt on turret.

Even when you go into the SL series I think you can only get C axis starting with the SL-20. An SL-10 or GT-10 with C-Axis would be my ticket.

implmex · Jan 15, 2008

Hi SIM:
The GT20 has only indexing for the C axis, not full interpolation like the SL20 and the Office lathe.
Here's the link:

http://www.haascnc.com/option_details2.asp?ID=463&PartID=191#CNCLatheTreeModel

Probably relies entirely on the holding torque of the servomotor to hold position, so no heavy cuts while indexed.
It should be possible to rig a simple disc brake though, and control it through a couple of M codes.
I've never asked...I wonder if it's even possible to have Haas custom build a machine with full C axis!
Probably worth a phone call to Haas and see.
Cheers

Marcus

SIM · Jan 15, 2008

Ah missed that. The office looks good, just need a bigger spindle.

implmex · Jan 16, 2008

Hi SIM:
The Haas Office Lathe is so overpriced, I can't believe anyone would seriously consider it.
I can buy a completely rebuilt CMS GT27 with C axis for under 25,000 from a company in California...Dynamics I think it's called.
Almost identical specs, and for the price difference, I can put on a bar feeder and gold plate the door handle too.
Dressed up, the Office Lathe is getting up to the price of an SL10, and a nice used basic Hardinge can be had for under 30 K.
Cheers

Marcus

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