Haas TM-1 justification

Guys im looking at bringing in a Haas TM-1 or 2 to replace the old worn out Jet in our protoyping shop.

I was wondering if anyone had done any time studies or other justification for going from a manual mill to a TM style machine with CNC capabilities.

Anything you guys have to help me justify this would be a big help.

Thanks,

Daniel H.
Manufacturing Engineer
Lochinvar Corp.

080222-1226 EST USA

I do not know how you would do a time study to justify a CNC vs a manual mill. There are many other factors.

To drill two 1/4 holes 1 inch apart is going to take less time on a manual mill than a CNC when you include setup and programming.

If I want a fairly complex prototype part that may go thru a number of iterations, then CNC will be faster. If I want an accurate part and there are a number of steps, then CNC is probably faster.

I suggest you want both types of machines.

.

It sort of depends on what you make... how large is your company?

But if there is any doubt in your mind when comparing a Haas TM-1 to an old Jet manual mill... I mean, how can you loose? The Haas doesn't cost any money really and you can always sell the little Haas.

"I suggest you want both types of machines"


there you go- case closed. no study , sabbatical , scientific method needed.

to drill a few holes, mill slots and such...use the tm's manual handwheel
encoders ....just like a bpt w/ a dro....except no quill for tapping . the "quill" is on the
pendant.

when you need to mill a contoured pocket , arc ,circular feature..use the conversational
to program it .


ok, from personal experience w/ cnc .... if you have 16 holes to pop in a plate ,
and a drill press isn't good enough , the quill on a bpt is faster . it just gives more feel
and sensitive control. also , a manual will let you nurse a -way too big for the iron-
endmill (1-1/4 reduced shank,etc) much more delicately than an incremental click wheel.

also, there's no knuckle/ram on the cnc's head....so no angled mill/drilling , no 4' parts clamped
to the side of the table to machine into the ends....

other than that.......your purpose and intent should guide your decision.
good luck.

TM-1 are nice machines, they are definently not designed to run production however it sounds like you dont need that. Also they are not very friendly if you want to use them manually via the slide handles, however you can control it all from the MPG on the controller, that isnt bad by any means but it definently takes the "feel" out of it doing manually, the conversational program while not the best I have seen is quite adequate. Haas controllers are very nice if you have never used one. It also depends on what you are machining, there a solid machine but not rigid enough to handle an Ingersoll facemill in steel the 7.5HP just isnt quite enough but I suppose I like to push things a little hard, slow it down and ease on the feed and it will go fine im sure. All in all a good machine especially for the price. Definently opt for the tool changer, and if you plan on running lots of coolant I would suggest looking into the TM-1P with the enclosure but they are expensive, it would be easy enough to add some splash guards but the tool carousel can get in the way there. Just my thoughts

I had already decided on a TM-1or 2 machine. What i needed was some help for writing a proposal to present to the companys officers. I have the money budgeted i just need them to sign the authorization over to me so i can begin to do some shopping.

I dont know what I was really looking for as far as advice just maybe some reason to switch from a manual machine to one with some cnc capabilities.

Since I am looking at a TM Series mill also, I will ask the question. With the difference in price between the TM-1, TM-2 with all the options, a TM-3 has several of the options as base that you would be paying for, why would you not want to go with that size? I worked out a price spreadsheet, and several of the options that I wanted on the TM-2 were part of the base of the TM-3, so the price difference was only about $3k difference.

In your proposal should point out that the TM-1 or 2 has full CNC capability as well as the ease of use of manual, less of learning curve than full CNC

CNC gives you repeatability, increased accuracy(mostly removes operator error), decreased setup time... things like that

how good are you with a rotary table? with the tm1 you will have no use for one because you can have it interpolate to profile a circle or arc much much faster and more accurate by far.

The one I have used had a 10 pocket tool changer----invaluable it would change tools in about 5 seconds not terribly fast but even with a power drawbar you cant beat that. not to mention that it can immeadiatly pick up that next tool and start using it because you store the tool information in the control instead of touching off again.

to me this is a no brainer but I know how some management is

Well you can tell the bean counters TimH loves his TM-2 That sould be enough.

I did have a Bridgeport mill with an old Heidenhain TNC145. I loved that machine. It didn't have a tool changer though. The TNC145 crapped out so I bought a TM-2. What a difference.

The way to sell a new asset is a ROI (return on investment). How is the new asset going to pay for itself? More importantly, what benefits does the machine have that will make money for the company?

Provided you don't use the flexibility of a knuckle head mill in the tool room to handle every conceivable senario of work that may come about and a rigid bed mill will handle the needed work, then the TM machines are intended to be a transistional manual to CNC machine. The old dogs have handwheels to make them happy and the CNC is new tricks that become very useful very quickly.

Time wasted on calculations, layout, etc in a manual machine can be punched into the CNC with very quick results and high accuracy due to less error. Initially manual users cling to their handwheels but it doesn't take long before the training wheels can be removed entirely and replaced with buttons and MPG. (not trying to start a fight here, just the reality that a CNC machine that fits the bill can save a lot of time once the potential has been learned).

Basically , break down the jobs that the old mill used to do. Demonstrate in each job how the CNC mill will increase productivity. Even something as simple as layout time, computer to part, or the time wasted on tool changes (good reason for the changer upgrade) can be put in to dollars saved.

The hard part to figure out is what the operator will do with saved time?