VFD for Bridgeport Series 1 J head 1hp

Hello everyone....

This is my 1st post here and I just bought a Bridgeport Series 1 J head 1hp Mill. I'm picking it up this week and I am trying to figure out how to power it. I've done quite a bit of reasearch reading the threads here, on other forums and web pages.

I was looking on ebay and I found a couple of VFDs that I think will work. Has any one had any experience with any of theses?

Bedford B800 1 or 2 HP:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Variable-Freque...ryZ41952QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Delta VFD Frequency Inverter AC drive VFD007S21B (I think this is a 1hp unit):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350055772683&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=022


ACS50-01N-09A8-2 VARIABLE FREQUENCY MICRO DRIVE:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200220940399&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=010


What I need is a VFD that takes 1 phase 220v Input and outputs 3 phase to operate the mill. I want variable speed as well. I have read both that I need a 2hp VFD for a 1hp motor and that a 1hp VFD would be fine for the 1 HP motor so I'm not sure at this point.

Thanks for the help and the great forum.

I’m not familiar with any of the drives listed above, but will say this; if the drive is RATED for SINGLE PHASE input, then all you need is a drive rated for 1HP. If the drive is rated for THREE PHASE input, you have to double the drive rating to use it on single phase input, and there is no guarantee that the drive will work. Most will, but some have phase loss protection, and see the single phase input as a lost phase.

Perhaps someone here has more experience with these particular drives and can comment.

[FONT=&quot]Dennis[/FONT]

Ditto what Dennis said.

You should always check the manufacturer's ratings. If the drive is designed to operate from single-phase input, that fact will be noted prominently in the manual, because it's a significant selling feature. Also, the wiring and overload protection requirements will be different for single-phase than for three-phase power.

Drives which are designed for only three-phase input may be used with single-phase if the manufacturer says that's OK. In this case you must derate the drive by 50%, so you would need a 2 HP drive for a 1 HP motor.

I'm using an SMV-series drive made by AC Tech on my 1 HP Bridgeport. It's rated for single-phase 220V input and works quite well.

Like Dennis, I've never heard of any of the brands you mentioned. I would be particularly suspicious of the ACS50... drive since the manufacturer is not identified.

I suggest sticking with a name brand. That way you can get support if there's a problem.

You can get an idea of what's available by looking at the Drives Warehouse site www.driveswarehouse.com and entering 1 HP and 220V single-phase as your selection criteria. They don't carry all brands, but they do have a good selection.

Modelman said:

If the drive is rated for THREE PHASE input, you have to double the drive rating to use it on single phase input...

Click to expand...

A minor clarification of the foregoing would insert the word "only", thus: "If the drive is rated for THREE PHASE input ONLY,..."

The sentence as written could be construed to apply to all VFDs which were rated for three-phase input, even if they also carried single-phase ratings. That would be incorrect.

- Leigh

Just for your information.

I posted a hookup diagram for a Hitachi SJ200 showing how to use the orginal Bridgeport Drum switch to control the drive. Just search for SJ200 and you should find the post or scan the posts for the past two weeks because there was some activity on the post within the last week or so.

The SJ200 is not a cheap drive and it is sensorless vector which makes it good for mills and lathes as it has good torque at low speeds. There are many other brands that have the sensorless vector feature also. Just be sure you stay away from any drives listed as "pump or fan drive". These are variable torque drives and have poor low speed torque. You need a constant torque drive for the mill.

I hear a lot of good comments about the new TECO 7300CV (available from FactoryMation) but I have no first hand knowledge of these.

I suggest sticking with a name brand.

Click to expand...

+1

I also like the SMVector drive from AC Tech, the same one used by The real Leigh. The Hitachi SJ200 mentioned by toolnut is another popular model. As is the Teco MA7200.

The drives on eBay are attractive because of their low price. But they may have no documentation, may need operators no longer available, and may have power caps that are at or near the end of their lifetime. Unless they are free or dirt cheap, it isn't worth the risk.

FWIW, the ACS50 looks to be older than me

precisionworks said:

FWIW, the ACS50 looks to be older than me

Click to expand...

You mean it pre-dates dirt???

- Leigh

The ACSxxx unit is made by ABB...doesn't get much more name-brand than that. I've never heard of Bedford, but it looks familiar, so it's probably made for them by someone else. Delta has become pretty common over the past few years, but no idea of their quality.

As percisionworks hints at, "new in box" doesn't mean much with VFDs, since the DC bus caps can deteriorate over time. If you do buy one of these (or any VFD from e-bay), make sure you reform the caps first before running them under load (I believe there is a thread about that here somewhere).

John

Well I've looked around and narrowed it down to 3 I think:

AC Tech SMVector $188.67 www.wolfautomation.com
SJ200-007NFU2 $225.00 www.driveswarehouse.com
Teco 7300CV $170.00 www.factorymation.com

All 1 HP units

Any input on those leaning towards the AC Tech or Teco since they are a lil cheaper.

I also noticed AC Tech has a Nema 4 model for about $213 would it be worth it to get better protection or is that not really needed? I will be unsing the unit in a shop environment with grinding, welding cutting etc going on near by so there could be some dust issues.

Oh and one last question is there a way to wire both my Bridgeport mill 1hp and a 1hp Southbend lathe to run off the same VFD? I will not be running both at the same time so it would be nice to use one VFD for both of them if possible.


Thanks for all the help

[FONT=&quot]I haven't used them all, so can't make a valid comparison, but I have used a 3HP AC Tech SMV in the NEMA 4X enclosure, and I like it. The electronics are completely sealed and gasketed; all the components that need cooling are mounted to the back plate, which is a finned heat sink with the fins external to the unit, complete with flanges for mounting it, fins to the wall (or whatever). It really is a slick design. The display is bright and quite visible, I have mine (on a CNC mill) mounted on the electrical cabinet about three feet behind the computer control box, and it is plenty visible.

From what I've read here, all three brands are quality products, but I personally think the 4X enclosure is worth the extra money.

Dennis[/FONT]

Any input on those leaning towards the AC Tech or Teco

Click to expand...

I have both brands, and Hitachi also. IMO, both Teco & AC Tech are solid drives, with excellent documentation available, and with superb support when calling the 1-800 number for the factory tech line (don't expect that from the distributor, as that isn't their main focus).

The AC Tech drives, at least the SMVector, are made in the USA (I know, many of the component parts are international sourced). And there isn't a great price difference for the NEMA4x enclosure. My last two drives are SMVector in the NEMA4x enclosure, and I'm planning to purchase two more for use at work. Pretty simple to set motor & drive parameters, very easy to enter & exit the program loop (unlike my Hitachi, which still drives me nuts).

In the end, it's personal preference. All three drives are top of the line, all will exceed your expectations.

You mean it pre-dates dirt???

Click to expand...

Broncostile said:

Oh and one last question is there a way to wire both my Bridgeport mill 1hp and a 1hp Southbend lathe to run off the same VFD? I will not be running both at the same time so it would be nice to use one VFD for both of them if possible.

Click to expand...

Oops! Forgot to comment on your last question. I could be doable, but there are three things to consider:
1) While these things are called “sensorless” vector drives, this isn’t totally correct. While they don’t have sensors that connect to the motor, they DO sence current changes on the output, and modify their parameters to attempt to maximize torque. The AC Tech drives are pretty easy to set up; after everything is connected you initially run an auto tuning utility, and the drive “learns” the motor. Other brands use similar strategies. Needless to say, if the motors are not similar in electrical characteristics, one won’t be getting the benefit of the vector drive technology.

2) It is absolutely imperative that there be no way to open the motor circuit under load, i.e. when the motor is running. To integrate a VFD with a machine tool, the VFD becomes the motor starter, and the control station (drum switch, potentiometer, etc.) is rewired as a low voltage control circuit. If you intend to try to alternate one drive between two motors, the interlock scheme to insure a motor doesn’t get disconnected under load can become complex. Disconnecting the drive under load risks blowing the main power transistors, thus scrapping the drive.

3) After working out the power interlocks, you still have a safety issue. The possibility of pushing the start button on one machine and having another start unexpectedly is dangerous and should not be taken lightly.

All things considered, the best course is to dedicate a drive to each machine, integrating it tightly with the machine’s operating controls. I know that $213 plus shipping isn’t exactly cheap, but in the vast scheme of things, it’s not all that much either. The first time you blow the power transistor on the drive, you’ll be paying that much for it’s replacement anyway.


[FONT=&quot]Dennis[/FONT]

Well I bit the bullet and bought 2 of the AC Tech SMVector Nema 4X drives. They were $228.81 each from www.wolfautomation.com.

I feel better about getting a name brand and a Nema 4x so I think the extra money was worth it just for the peace of mind. In the end they really were not much more than one of the drives off ebay would of been.

Now to pick up the mill on Thursday and get it running .

What I did...

For my J-head mill and J-head radial drill, I used Allen-Bradley Bulletin 1305 drives, type AA08A... like this one:

EBAY Item number: 290040244639
http://cgi.ebay.com/Allen-Bradley-1...ryZ78192QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

I got mine, however, for about $100 each... and they were NOS, never been out of the box.

On the mill, I simply moved the V-belt to the middle position (where the traction surface between drive and driven is maximized) hooked up the VFD, set the operating parameters, and run it in 3-wire forward-stop-reverse configuration with a 10k pot for speed control. Someday I'll change it, but it works nice for right now.

On the radial drill, I did this:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=152934

Broncostile said:

Oh and one last question is there a way to wire both my Bridgeport mill 1hp and a 1hp Southbend lathe to run off the same VFD? I will not be running both at the same time so it would be nice to use one VFD for both of them if possible.

Click to expand...

No. Not in the vector mode.

You could do this (with some MAJOR restrictions, see below) by using the drive in V/Hz mode rather than vector.

In vector mode the drive tunes itself to the motor. This is a rather involved process, and is normally only done once, when the drive is commissioned. You would have to do it each time you changed machines.

In V/Hz mode this tuning is not done, so it would be possible to switch in different motors. If you want to operate in V/Hz mode you can get the cheaper SCF-series drive from AC Tech which does not have vector capability.

However, if you choose to do so, you must be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the drive is powered down and the capacitors have discharged completely before you change the motor connections. Switching the drive output while it still has voltage on the caps can cause serious damage.

- Leigh

bought 2 of the AC Tech SMVector Nema 4X drives.

Click to expand...

Good call

That's my plan from this point on. As soon as my NEMA1 drives sell on eBay, the NEMA4x drives will be purchased.

abb acs50 series is being replaced by acs55 series.

http://www.clrwtr.com/ABB-ACS55-Drives.htm

if you are just looking for a simple micro drive you can try ac tech, hitachi or fuji. they are considerably cheaper than abb.

for a soft start i've used abb pst series. they seems to be very good.

I've got my mill and surface grinder on an SJ200.

A little late here, but you can use the hitachi SJ200s for two machines, in sensorless vector mode, because they have an alternate motor profile setting. You set it up so that you select a motor with a drum switch or whatever, and assign one of the input terminals to allow selecting which profile to use. I have my surface grinder and mill setup this way. You already got separate VFDs which is better anyways though.