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Wiremold raceway, gutters for flexibility

BruceC

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Location
San Jose, Ca
I am building a shop, 55'x35' (actually someone is building it for me). It is time to do the electrical. I want flexibility which will allow me to add outlets for relocated machinery or new machinery. I have explored a product by Wiremold which is a long skinning rectangular box (raceway) (1 3/4"x4 3/4"x10') in which I could run wire through the length of the shop wall (by stringing the boxes together) and place outlets on the side facing toward the center of the shop. I would be able to take the side of the box off to add wire and add or relocate outlets.

http://www.wiremold.com/shared_content/pdf/ed530.pdf

Seems like a good idea except it costs $6.38/foot. This does not include the special accessories I would need like outlet covers etc.

I talked with an electrician who suggested I get 4"x4" electrical gutters which he said are similar to the product by Wiremold but cheaper (less fancy). But the electrical supply house I called said the longest they carry is 36" and sell for $25. Plus I would need a coupling to attach the 36" sections together to go the length of the wall.

It seems to me there should be a product out there like a 4"x4"x 10" box which I could string end to end the length of the shop wall, run wire through and drill holes in to run wire out of and into an outlet box which doesn't cost a fortune.

This is opposed to putting in a lot of outlets (110V, 220V, 3 phase, etc.) behind the drywall which would limit flexibility in the future

Any suggestions?

Thank you, Bruce
 
Go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and search on part number 8130K17. A ten foot length of NEMA 1 4" x 4" raceway and cover for $87.53. There should be cheaper sources, but this one was quick to look up.

I used a couple lengths of this in my tool shop and it works well. The main 3 ph. feed to the shop runs it's length, three #6 + ground, with taps dropped to fused disconnects where needed. There is also a pair of 120V circuits for outlets. Outlets are in standard 4 x 4 "1900 boxes" surface mounted below the raceway, The large size of the raceway is better for making connections to large gauge wire; there's room for split bolt connectors and taping them. Unlike the Wiremold, the raceway has knockouts all along it's length, making it easy to surface mount pipe from anywhere, or mount boxes / switch enclosures with short offset couplings. My feed from the main panel is in 1 1/2" pipe until it comes down from the ceiling at one end of the wall where the raceway runs behind all the machines. It's a very flexible system, and it makes a dandy shelf for clamp sets and other stuff as well.

I would never consider running pipe behind the drywall in an industrial situation; it's too limiting, and too hard to change. I surface mount everything, either bending offsets in the pipe to clamp it to the wall, or attach it with "Mini" hanger clips which hold the pipe out the same distance from the wall as the box K.O.s. This way, it's easy to add stuff, also easy to change stuff without having to abandon old pipe and boxes in place because they are buried in the wall.



Dennis
 
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Dennis,

Thank you for the information. I looked it up on McMaster.com per your suggestion. This seems to be the product my electrician was talking about. With your information I also looked up “wireways” in MSC. They have two similar products. One has a cover attached by screws; the other (more expensive) has a hinged cover. All are expensive. Wiremold is the least expensive but after you buy their outlet covers perhaps they are the most expensive.

The best I can tell, with the Wiremold product outlets go in the cover, while with the other product, the wire exits the unit before going to an outlet box as you described.

I am surprised more people haven’t commented on this thread about “wireways”. It seems like such a good product. Are few people using them?

Bruce
 
Have you thought about buss and buss plugs? There's a whole lot of buss floating around on ebay and similar places for a fraction of new. No need to run any wire when you add a new machine, just plug in a new buss plug and flip the switch!
 
Bussways, removed from obsoleted plants in the de-industrialized midwest, should be pretty cheap, particularly the less popular types. Often just discarded as scrap.

Taps are often movable.

A possible complication is the installation of so-called "whips", for which supplementary cable support may be required, and can be expensive if not obtained along with the bussway itself.

Most types are (or were) UL Listed, and are industrial quality almost to the extreme.
 
Thank you for the suggestion of using “buss”. I have not heard of this before. After a search on the internet is seems that there are two spellings: bussways and busways. Some of the things that are listed in ebay under “busways” include what looks to be an electrical disconnect as well as long boxes (which I assume are what you are referring to.) When I look up “buss” I seem to find fuses.

The best I can tell busways are long boxes that look like wireways into which you can plug in a plug anywhere along its length. I never did see a picture of the plug. They seem to by described by: Amps, volts, phase, # of wires, and ground arrangement. Once you have the bussway you need to buy the plug which fits that particular manufacturer’s bussway. The plugs seem very expensive.

I did see a 10’ length on e-bay for over $400 but it was new. There was also a 60 amp Light Buss.

Can you share with me any more information about this? What parameters would I be looking for?

Thank you, Bruce
 
buss is a beautiful system
but it's going to cost considerably more than 4x4x10' tray

emsco
763-571-9005
sells used equipment

and peter is dead on
if you would have been in my parking lot last summer i scrapped out 200 ft of old square D type buss cause it ain't the stuff people want now days

but deals like that are hard to find

i did however run all the single phase in my new building right down the middle of every bay in 4x4x10' tray
has worked out very nicely
no mater were you want to run power it's just about allways straight overhead
no more long runs back to the panel

if your having an electrician do the work it will probly be less labor in the long run to do it this way than individual runs also

i believe mine was

i pay about 50 cents on the dollar for buss plugs from emsco but that still comes out to about 200 bucks for a 30 amp 3 phase plug
 
Can you plug in 110V, 220V and 3 phase machinery into the same bussway? Will all the machinery be protected by the same Amp overload protectioin? Eg., some machinery would normally plug into a 15 amp breaker line while others into a 50 amp breaker protected line. When using the bussway, is everything protected by the same breaker (the breaker of the bussway) which would be big enough to run the biggist machine. If this is correct will each machine need to have its own overload protection?

Bruce
 
I can describe how bussway is used in our plant.

Basically every lab has a single service entrance, where
they drop from a distribution buss, into a panel with
a hundred amp, three phase, main breaker. This provides
power to a four conductor buss duct that has knock-outs
to allow turret boxes to be clipped in place.

The green wire ground is through the steel outer of the
bussway.

The turret boxes have spring fingers that slide over the
silver plated copper conductors.

The disadvantage for used stuff is, the conductors may
be oxidised, and the knockouts will all be knocked out,
which means you have to fab up covers.

If it were me, I'd do the shop in exposed conduit, with
surface mount boxes. Probably easier and cheaper.

Jim
 
"Thank you for the suggestion of using 'buss'. I have not heard of this before. After a search on the internet is seems that there are two spellings: bussways and busways."

"Busways" is a "word of art", codified in the NEC, Article 368.

Busways may be used for services, feeders and branch circuits.

It is perhaps the most flexible method of wiring a large industrial premises, particularly where overhead circuits are required.

You can install taps as needed, and drops, too.

The NEC doesn't say which brands and types of busways are up to code, but if it has a UL sticker on it, it is probably OK.

Try to get used busways and busway components as new is very costly.
 
Hi Bruce,

Peter explained it well. "Buss" or "Bussway" is essentially 10-foot lengths of a steel box, with three copper bars inside (the buss bars). The buss is usually fed off the main switchboard in a large shop, and allows for extremely high capacities. Depending on the system, you can plug in "buss plugs" at set intervals along the buss which individually protect the machines and supply drops. It is possible to find it in the $80 range for a 10 foot section for 200A 3~, new.

Again, surplus industrial electric outfits are the place to look. You can get some leads on ebay and go from there. It's a hit-and-miss thing, especially with commercial construction on the verge of tanking.

Otherwise, I agree on surface mount conduit. Go up at least one size from what you think you'll need. That will save you tearing it out to go up one size later. ;)
 
"Otherwise, I agree on surface mount conduit. Go up at least one size from what you think you'll need."

If you use EMT, install several sizes larger and install two parallel runs to the same boxes.

This way, when you reconfigure your whole shop, you pull all the "new work" through the initially empty run, and wires for your "old work", too.

Then, a switchover from one to the other doesn't interrupt your shop for long.

The formerly used run then becomes the unused run for the next reconfiguration.

Be sure to pull a poly cord through the unused run to facilitate reconfiguration.

I would use only so-called "deep" boxes.
 
Thank you for all the great input and information.

I ended up buying 4x4 wireways from MSC with the plan of running wireways down each of the long sides of the shop and putting a sub panel at the beginning of each.

In the end there was a lot of support for surface mounted conduit but this support seemed to gain speed after I made the purchase last night. Hopefully I will also be happy with the wireways.

As always, I learned a lot from this web site about things I know so little about. Thank you.
 
you can't break into the middle of a conduit run
with that duct you can add a drop anywhere with nothing but a knockout punch

it's not the cheapest way to do it but
that system is absolutely top shelf and you'll be pleased
 
"you can't break into the middle of a conduit run..."

Why not?

Not for nothin, but I do that all the time.

Pull the wires out, hacksaw the conduit, shorten, put the box in, re-install the
wires on one side, new for the other side.

Jim
 
"Why not?

"Not for nothin, but I do that all the time."

The rule was written to eliminate splices within conduits.

Nothing in the rules prevents installing a box mid-run and reconnecting the "old work" (which really becomes "rework") and the "new work", said splices being wholly within the added box.
 
"you can't break into the middle of a conduit run..."

Why not?

Not for nothin, but I do that all the time.

please excuse the word /implication "can't"

what i meant of coarse was

can't without Pulling the wires out, hacksawing the conduit, shortening the conduit, putting the box in, re-installing the
wires on one side, new for the other side.
 
I ended up purchasing (7) 10’x 4”x 4” wireways from MSC. They are installed and am now (or the electrician is) putting wiring in them.

I put (4) 10’ lengths down one side of the shop and (3) 10’ lengths down the opposite side. Fewer on one side because that side has a sink at one end and I didn’t see any advantage to running the wireways (at $86 each) over the sink. On the longer run I put the sub-panel over the middle of the run thinking it would shorten the length of wire needed for an isolated outlet.

As can be seen by the pictures, I am pulling 110V and 220V off the wireways at 7’ intervals. These outlet boxes will be recessed into the drywall. When I figure out where the higher amperage and 3 phase machinery are going I will add additional outlets specifically for them. Those outlets will sit on top of the drywall (unless I figure it out before the drywall is put in).

After I had purchased the wireways I discovered I could have gotten them locally from the company Electrical Distributors. When I had talked with them initially and described what I was looking for they said they only carried WireMold. Sometime you have to know the exact name of what you are looking for or electrical supply places don’t know what you are talking about.

Luckily for me this group helped my out finding what I was looking for.

Thanks for all the help.

Bruce

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