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Quadrant Marks

Mike Ortega

Aluminum
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Location
Sunnyvale, Ca
So I'm milling a half moon shaped ring. 3.4 radius. On the inside and outside I get a quadrant mark at 90 degrees. The part has other little pocket details with milled corner radii woith no marks. Any suggestions?
 
It sounds to me as if there are some issues with slop in your table.
When the servos change direction, the table hesitates just enough to take the load off of the endmill which is what is causing the "quadrant marks"
The only reason I can think of that the other radii do not have the marks, is that the table is already traversing in that direction, and there is no reversing direction needed in the servos.
I do not know how to fix this problem, but I am interested in reading someones solution.
 
I agree that it sounds like a worn screw.

I don't know if backlash comp would take care of that or not?

-----------------

Ratt'n Roll!
Ox
 
A ballbar test will show if there is a problem. A skilled technician can use this test to diagnose the problem. He may either suggest a repair or it may just need some tweaks on the servo parameters.

Regards,

Mike.
 
Since its only a half circle , maybe you can shift the job around 90 degrees so that the direction-change has to be done by the other AXIS ( x instead of Y or Y instead of X)

then you can see which axis it is thats giving you the trouble .....and maybe even run the job without the mark.

MJM
 
Mike,
I think it is time to check your machine for lost motion.
Put a .0001" indicator on the head and/or the spindle and indicate against a square surface on the table. Either X or Y, in incremental mode increment in one direction until the axis moves. Set a zero, increment in the opposite direction until the axis moves. Note the reading on the control. That is the extent of your lost motion. While you are at, check all the axies. If you find one that is really bad, move the indicator to the motor and start checking for anything that is loose. It is time to determine the source of movement and follow the motion until you find the faulty component. Motor coupling, lead screw bearings, bearings in ball nut, loose bolts mounting the ball nut to the slide. Just keep looking til you jump over the bad area and you will see the reading on the indicator. Good Luck
Regards Walt...
 
Quadrant marks..

I hate it when the thread just quits.
We never know if we helped or not.
Last time I was in Sunnyvale, Calif, I was at Lockheed
Aircraft and then almost across the street at TIW,
Toronto Iron Works, making arangements for the Keck
Telescope work.
How are you doing with your quadrant marks??
Regards Walt...
 
I hate it when the thread just quits.
We never know if we helped or not.
Last time I was in Sunnyvale, Calif, I was at Lockheed
Aircraft and then almost across the street at TIW,
Toronto Iron Works, making arangements for the Keck
Telescope work.
How are you doing with your quadrant marks??
Regards Walt...

Hey Walt. Thanks for checking in. Well, me thinks its a servo or backlash comp prob. Machine is a month old. I even went into my MasterCAM post and disabled my break arcs at quadrant. Tech/Apps guy should be in later this week. I will be back with the results.
 
Hey Walt. Thanks for checking in. Well, me thinks its a servo or backlash comp prob. Machine is a month old. I even went into my MasterCAM post and disabled my break arcs at quadrant. Tech/Apps guy should be in later this week. I will be back with the results.

So....Did ya find the problem?
 
Takes a while to make up to mgmt and all that. Service was supposed to be here Friday the 19th. I'll find out what the deal is today. I'm just as eager share as you guys are to hear. I have'nt forgot! ;)
 
And it's Fixed!

Sorry for such a delay, but it's finally fixed. All the technician did was check backlash in X/Y, which was perfect, or non-existent. Then just tweaked parameters 138, and 139. X/Y Friction Compensation after a few test cuts and it's fine now. It wasnt affecting dimensional accuracy, but those marks sure were annoying.:cheers:
 
That is interesting. I wonder what friction compensation actually is in theoretical terms...some sort of temporary PID filter adjustment?
 
Its a bit disconcerting to know that there is something like this parameter on a cnc and I haven't heard of it till now....


googling brought up some stuff ( links below)

'http://thesis.lib.ncu.edu.tw/ETD-db/ETD-search/view_etd?URN=90323119'

then some more at
'http://journals.pepublishing.com/content/l5t68377h7052281/'


the text is copied here....

Résumé / Abstract
One of the most significant sources of tracking error for an X-Y table is static friction, a nonlinear disturbance at low velocity. In traversing a circular profile, an X-Y table encounters zero velocity crossings at ninety degree intervals around the circle, leaving relatively large tracking errors referred to as «quadrant glitches.» To learn the control input which eliminates errors caused by stiction, repetitive control, a subclass of learning control, is employed. Experiments, conducted on the X-Y bed of a CNC milling machine, demonstrate that near-perfect tracking can be achieved in twelve cycles or less. Of particular interest is the velocity command input generated by repetitive control. The input contains feedforward information for developing perfect trajectories at low velocities
Revue / Journal Title
Journal of dynamic systems, measurement, and control ISSN 0022-0434 CODEN JDSMAA
Source / Source
1993, vol. 115, no2A, pp. 279-284 (24 ref.)
Langue / Language
Anglais





and here

As the development in industry, time and quality are more and more important in manufacturing industry. Therefore, automatic manufacturing machines are tending to high speed and high precision. This thesis is aimed to eliminate tracking error of traveling a circular profile on the CNC machine tools. Friction is one of the most significant source of nonlinear disturbance for the motion control which caused by the relative motion of different contact surface at the low velocity. The nonlinear component of friction such as static friction (stiction) and the Coulomb friction should be overcome so that the tracking error will be eliminated. When the X-Y tables are tracking a circular profile, quadrant glitches appear at ninety degrees intervals, i.e. the motion of one axis has a zero velocity crossing and reverses direction.
The quadrant glitches were due to friction brought about transient phenomenon. Therefore, we will solve the transient phenomenon. We will make the system to reach steady state quickly, we may anticipate compensating a value when the motion of one axis has a zero velocity crossing and reverses direction. We will observe the system dynamic before traversing a circular profile, and to obtain a compensated value on off-line.
In addition, we designed the feedforward and P feedback tracking controllers. The research adopts feedforward controller to improve the tracking performance of the system.
Finally, the above servo loop control of tracking a circular profile on CNC machine tools is verified by the simulation and experimental results.


and more here

N Uchiyama1

1 Department of Mechanical Engineering, Toyohashi University of Technology, 1-1 Hibarigaoka, Tempaku, Toyohashi, Aichi 441-8580, Japan, [email protected]
Abstract

Contouring control that employs tracking error components normal to desired contour curves as feedback signals is an effective method of improving contouring accuracy in machine tool control. In this paper, a contouring control method for biaxial feed drive systems is presented, which transforms tracking errors in each feed drive axis into errors that are reference to a moving frame around the desired position. The method is extended to include a referenced adjustment function for reducing inherent contour errors in the moving frame approach. Because friction is a major disturbance in motion control of feed drive systems, a friction compensation method for the contouring control systems is proposed. Since properties of friction cannot be predicted accurately, an estimation method of the friction model parameters is developed, and a robust controller for the estimation errors is designed. The effectiveness of the proposed method is demonstrated by experimental results with circular contour curves.

Keywords
machine tool, feed drive system, contouring control, non-linear friction
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Hope some of you can make more sense of it that I .

mjm
 
Quadrant Marks.

That explaination kinda makes me think some computer buff felt he could take a piece of junk (mechanically) hook a putor to it and make good parts.
I still maintain, reversal comp, lead screw screw comp and things like that are ok but you have to mechanically start with something. The putor will not "overhaul" a piece of junk with all the comps.
Just a thought.
Regards Walt...
Maybe if the machine is in good shape, sometime the putor is not needed for corrections.
Walt.
 
Spot on Walt.

I can compensate backlash with software and position the tool exactly where I want to machine the part. But the moment I start the machining the system fails because the compensation cannot tighten the play in the ballscrew.

Whats the use of accurate positioning if I cant do any proper drilling or milling at the accurately positioned position !!

MJM
 








 
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