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Interesting 3ph Lincoln dynamotor/welder contraption.

JunkyardJ

Titanium
Joined
Oct 30, 2007
Location
Howell Mi
I went and picked up this welder today, it's made by lincoln. It uses a 3 phase 3600 rpm motor to drive a DC generator, and looks kinda like a fire hydrant! It's got two controls on it, one for voltage, and the other for current. It says it's a constant current type power source. They were using it for stick tig, and stick welding where it came from. It came with a cart that has a spot for a gas cylinder. It says 200 amps on it, for power output. I'm going to head out to snap a picture of it, and get the model information off of it here in a bit. It's a HEAVY PIG, had to lift it with the bucket on the tractor to unload it!

This brings me to questions, I was thinking about putting an RPC on it to power it, but it draws 16 amps, so a 10 hp RPC should work wouldn't it?? Do you think I could get by with a starting cap just to tinker with it until I get an RPC built? Anybody ever seen one of these, or used one? I figured the worst case scenario is I put a gasoline engine on it, and make a genewelder out of it. :cheers:
 
Is this a WW2 machine updated for MIG? We've had a couple grey "torpedo" m/g Lincolns over the years, one verticle, one horizontal. I only weld from time to time and to me they work fine, the guys who weld all day every day say they're the best.
 
No, right now it's stick only.

It says on the top of it which polarity to use for "heliarc" using that plastic labelmaker tape. The "torpedo" description is pretty accurate, it's a vertical one. WW2 sounds about like the right era. It's capable of being a power source for any type of DC welding I'd imagine. I'm thinking about getting a tig torch for it and stuff. I allready have a gas regulator. :cheers:
 
Here's some pics of this beast.

Wish I could have left the pannel pic bigger so it was easier to read, but the file size wouldn't allow for it. I couldn't compress it any more without it looking like dookie, so I had to resize it smaller. Anyways, here it is, it says "shield arc" on the pannel, so it was intended for tig welding I think! :smoking:
 

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The local high school welding program, since deleted, used these Lincoln welders.

Most likely, these were obtained from state surplus, which obtained them from federal surplus.

All the local "manual training" (that is, shop) programs have been deleted in account of insurance reasons.

Some programs remain at the community college level, usually in connection with an apprenticeship program. Welding and pipe fitting, I think.
 
Welder

The term "Shield Arc" comes from the normal stick electrodes that are coated with a shielding flux material. The very early electric welding was done with bare electrodes.

JRW
 
Well, 16a is the 460v current!!!!

Holy cow, 16 amps is the 460v current!!! This thing draws a BUNCH of juice 32 FREAKIN AMPS @ 230v 3 phase!!!!! I found a manual for it on lincoln's website, which I didn't expect to find. Interesting, what the "shield arc" means. This thing can be used for tig though. So, I'm gonna have to build a HELLUVA RPC. I'm guessing it will suck up 50a @ 220v single phase. I need at least a 15hp RPC! This is INSANE, at least I won't have to worry about ths size of the machines I pick up from now on, because I'll have a MASSIVE RPC to run them! :eek:



http://content.lincolnelectric.com//pdfs/products/navigator/im/IM132.pdf
 
The term "Shield Arc" comes from the normal stick electrodes that are coated with a shielding flux material. The very early electric welding was done with bare electrodes.

JRW

My Dad was certified for Heliarc welding on aircraft druing WWII. I always assumed it was like present day TIG, but using helium for the shield gas. Here's a definition I found on the web:

"TIG stands forTungsten Inert Gas welding. Also called GTAW (Gas Tungsten Arc Welding) and Heliarc® which was Linde's trade name for the TIG process when it was introduced many years ago. The arc is started with a tungsten electrode shielded by inert gas and filler rod is fed into the weld puddle separately."

Dennis
 
RPC questions.

I've located a 20hp motor to build an RPC with. I can afford that, it's pretty cheap. The associated starting caps, potential relays, and other stuff is what I can't afford to buy right now. So, I was thinking about going with a pony start design. I'll worry about balancing it, and power correction another time, for now I just want to make it run. I have a 1/2hp 120v single phase motor that I could use as the pony motor, is that enough just to spin the rotor up to speed on a 20hp motor???? I can get a 1hp motor pretty cheap/free if needed, but I don't want to bother if I don't need it.

Anyways, the plan is to have a BIG main contactor, that applies power to the 3 phase motor controlled by a time delay relay. Have the pony motor on a contactor connected to the normally closed side of the time delay relay, so when the switch is first turned on, the pony fires up. Then when the time delay relay clicks on, the main contactor applies power to the allready spinning idler motor, and shuts off the contactor for the pony. Does this sound like it will work?? I think it sounds good. :cheers:
 
The 20 hp motor will make a good rpc. There is a guy on ebay selling start capacitors. He goes by capacitor farm. His capacitors work good and are pretty cheap. The idea of one big contactor is good. Maybe you don't need to think about a delay. When you get the idler spinning, you can hit the start button on the idler.

I have a lincoln sae 400. I made it over to use with a tractor power take off. The welder has such a big rotating mass,the electric motor would take out 100 amp fuses on 240 volts before it would get to speed. The inrush of current is too great. So, there was not many places to use it on a farm.

I do like to weld with them.
 
I allready have all the stuff though.

I have a time delay relay, that's adjustable to 0-360 seconds. I've also got the big contactor, a smaller contactor (for the pony), and the 1/2 pony motor. I was also thinking of the pony system to keep the inrush current down. :cheers:
 
Man, I might have to scrounge up a bigger motor!

Dangit, the 1/2 horse motor might not start the 20hp idler! I was reading about an RPC where the poster had a 1hp motor on a 20hp idler, and it wouldn't start with the original cap. The motor I have is repulsion start (I think), so it might do the job (I HOPE). I can probably get a brand new 1hp motor for almost free, but I'll try the 1/2 horse first. Anybody else build a big RPC using the pony design find they needed a bigger motor??? :willy_nilly:

http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/rotary_converter/
 
That is a really good link. The part about balancing voltage between phases is as clear and concise in about 3 lines as I have ever seen.

On your phase converter, are you planning to have the pony motor hooked to the idler so the belt is tight all the time or use a tightener deal so you start the pony first and bring the idler to speed by tightening the belt, slowly? Then turn the idler off and have the belt loose once the idler is running.
 
I don't have a definite plan yet.

I was going to see what happened if I tried starting it with the belt tight. I was kinda thinking about taking Jim Rozen's idea of taking the belt off once the idler is running. I was going to measure the current draw both ways, and if there wasn't a lot of difference, I'd just leave the belt on. I've got some experimenting to do. :cheers:
 
I've used those things in my younger days. They were noisy but you couldn't find a better machine to weld with. I think Lincoln made them until the early 60s.
If you look at the AWS forum you will find that the pipe welders still use the gasoline version of that same generator, the venerable SA200. Those guys will pay big bucks for a rebuilt machine because they produce code welds day after day even though they suck gasoline.
Often there is no substitute for heavy iron (or copper).
 
It says on the top of it which polarity to use for "heliarc" using that plastic labelmaker tape. The "torpedo" description is pretty accurate, it's a vertical one. WW2 sounds about like the right era. It's capable of being a power source for any type of DC welding I'd imagine. I'm thinking about getting a tig torch for it and stuff. I allready have a gas regulator. :cheers:

I have a TIG torch would work great on that machine. You need a torch which has a gas valve on the torch, as the welder has no gas solenoid. You turn on the gas, weld, then turn off the gas, all manually. Anyway, mine is a flexhead torch made by CK Worldwide (whom many people think make the best TIG torches). It has real long leads, something like 20'.

PM me if you are interested in it. I don't think I'll ever use it. Has the gas lens collet body for collimar flow.

Grant Erwin
 
Metalmagpie, that tig torch sounds good!

Let me see if this pig even works right first, and get my RPC built. I've also gotta let my wallet recover a little because I've blown my spending cash for a while.

Anyways, went and picked up a 20hp century motor today for my RPC! :cheers:
 








 
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