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Severed underground phone line - questions

2Slow

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Location
South East Michigan, USA
I hired the local propane company to run a propane line to my barn this Saturday. All seemed to go well, but when I tried to make a phone call Saturday evening from my home phone (rarely used) there was no dial tone.

I thought it was odd, but then I realized that the line must have been severed. I started digging up (by hand) one side, and the wife started at the other. She found a ten wire phone cable that was severed by the ditch witch the contractor used.

I checked for voltage between all of the wires but there was none. I do not know if this means that the wire is severed somewhere else as well, but I am in the process of digging up the rest of the ditch to look for another break.

How do you make an underground splice to phone wire?

-Joe
 
Underground telephone lines are usually in some kind of conduit. If yours are not, you will need a good splice case. It can be any kind of case that will hold the cut ends and all of the materials you will use to create the splice... the splice case should be moisture proof if possible... You could also just replace the entire run... it might be the easiest thing to do... replace the line where it is already terminated.
 
No conduit. The wire has ten conductors surrounded by a flexible metalic shield surrounded by a plasitc shield.

Replacing the entire run would be cost prohibitive. There are no overhead wires where I am, so it would be a very long run to replace.

I was considering soldering and heat shrinking the individual wires than covering the whole thing in that stretchy tape, than covering it in GE silicone II.

-Joe
 
Not in the midwest...

I don't know of ANY midwestern telcos that put their drops in conduit... they use direct-bury multi-pair from the pedestal to your Demarcation box. Customer (your) wiring is on the house-side of the demarc panel, and the telco's responsibility goes to their side of the demarc box. I recently moved my telco service to an opposite corner of the house (actually the most direct pathway), and I put in conduit, blew a string through it, and the telco tech mounted the new demarc panel, pulled and connected his multi-pair through it, but only because I'm on good terms with him.

Note that the telco is responsible for maintaining and repairing everything between the pedestal and the demarc, and they can be very picky at times, so don't mess with it. The reason why your line has no voltage, is because the telco's switch detected the line-break and went into a 'protective' mode that disables the line. Under certain circumstances, a fault in that line can actually damage other componentry, and they may have a very difficult time figuring it out if you try to splice-and-bury the problem. Don't attempt to splice this wire... don't touch it, leave it for the telco, lest you make them really unhappy.

The critical mistake, is failure to call-before-you-dig. Look here:
http://www.missdig.net/About-MISS-DIG/index.html

Now realize that you (being the person who ultimately initiated the dig) are responsible for the damage, and did not call in a locate (which is free, by the way), you're likely to be charged for pulling a new wire... but if you tell them what happened, and are sincere and apologetic, they just might fix it and never say a word.

Next time, call Miss Dig, and they'll come out and mark all the public-access utilities on your property. Keep in mind that it is not only a free and convenient public service (something that really doesn't occur in any other!!!), it's also a law, even if you're just planting shrubs or replacing a rotten fencepost.

Now, also keep in mind that the locate service does NOT locate things other than public-access utilities... for example- your propane lines, a water-line from your well to house, your septic system, agricultural water lines, power lines buried from a building to a grain-bin... it only includes those lines that come from the utility easement to the meter or customer connection point. Your propane service company will usually locate-out propane lines for you, and if you're on good terms with the tech, he'll use his locator to find other stuff, if you provide him with a hook-on point and a twelve-pack of his favorite beverage.
 
No conduit. The wire has ten conductors surrounded by a flexible metalic shield surrounded by a plasitc shield.

Replacing the entire run would be cost prohibitive. There are no overhead wires where I am, so it would be a very long run to replace.

I was considering soldering and heat shrinking the individual wires than covering the whole thing in that stretchy tape, than covering it in GE silicone II.

-Joe

Not as easy as you might think. You don't likely have any slack, so when you splice, there will be constant tension on the splices.

The heat shrink doesn't work well with soldering, unless you strip back really far to keep the heat shrink tubing away from the soldering operation. Remember, you will have to put the tubing on BEFORE you solder, because you don't have access to an end once you do.

That feeds into the next issue: the shielding. You must repair that shielding or you will pick up noise on your phone lines, especially if you run any digital signals on it like modems. But to do the heat shrink, you will have to remove more of the shielding and that can get tricky.

Consider this: Get an underground splice box (usually plastic) and a short piece of 10 conductor phone cable (Radio Shack should have it). Add in a 1 foot loop using two splices so that there is no strain on the splices. Use a phone splice blocks and splice the shields as well. Like these;
http://cgi.ebay.com/Telephone-phone-splice-junction-block-terminal-connect_W0QQitemZ260288415984QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260288415984&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Then seal the heck out of the box with RTV. I would leave access to it though, like with one of those concrete vaults the Phone company uses, in case it doesn't work for long. make sure is has good drainage so that water doesn't stand in the hole for long.
 
I’m with Dave Kamp; you can’t fix it yourself, but I’d take USMCPOP’s position that the contractor that severed the line is responsible for it. If they do any amount of trenching at all, they should KNOW that they are required to call for the utilities to be located, and will be responsible even if the homeowner tells them there is nothing buried. After all, what does he know?

When they scheduled the job, they should have automatically called the Digger Hotline, or whatever it is called in your state, and when the crew arrived, they should have checked that all the utilities were either marked, or there was a flag and OK mark for each to signify that they checked and found they had nothing in the area designated for excavation.

To not do so is an omission on their part. It might not be covered in their contract, but I bet their proposal states that the work, “shall be done in a workmanlike manner.” I think you can make the argument that severing the phone company’s line because of their ignorance does not constitute a workmanlike manner.

[FONT=&quot]Dennis[/FONT]
 
In Iowa it is the contractors responability to call the locate service.
I have a trencher and will not even put a spade in the ground anywhere that I have not worked before. I always call, its free!! In Iowa also every contractor is required to have their own locator request called in. General contractor has a request, plumbers their own, electrican their own, etc.
The propane company should have made the call and had the telephone lines located.

I would call them and see what they have to say. From your description the repair should be their dime. Also the phone company needs to be the one doing the repair, don't let the propane company try to fix it themselves, you will regret it in the future.

Marshall
 
EVERY time we have something done, they come out and mark.

They come out and mark with their orange paint, and stick flags in the ground. I know where all the lines are now, but they mark them anyways. I've never had to call and have something markes myself, because they handle it. If they DIDN'T, and DIDN'T ASK YOU, I'd say they FAILED to do THEIR JOB! THEY should pay for it, unless this is your buddy, and neither of you thought to call, then you should split it.

As for fixing it yourself, I'd have to say you NEED to have the junction box shielded. Jref is right, you'll have to add a bit of wire, and most of the time they use twisted pairs. If you have a DSL internet connection, you'll lose some signal integrety. For dial up, and normal phone communtiation, it won't make a difference. Use an aluminum box, or a shielded (metal lined) plastic box to prevent interference. :cheers:
 
Depending of the risk of moist, and if you have to do it by youselves.
To an ordinary telephone only one twisted pair is required, the rest are spares.
You need to put in a short pice of new wire, use what ever you have. before you do the splicing put on a yd of garden hose. splice with scotchlock, soldering and chrimping or twisting and tapeing. Move the hose to cover the both splices, fill with ordinary silicone from eatch end.

test before chrimping and siliconating.

This will probably be good enoug, if the splices not will be covered by water.


Good luck!
dsk
 
I called Miss Dig after the incident to ask about responsibility. They said the company that does the digging is reponsible for the repair.

I called the propane company and was told they'd call back. That never happened, so I called again. They said they would call back. They called back today and said, "we're not paying for it".

I will probably call the phone company next and go from there.

As a side note, when I dial my land line phone number from my cell, I get a busy signal... I have dug most of the trench up, but have only found the one cut.

I see this going down as an expensive repair that I am going to end up paying for...

-Joe
 
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Well, that's good news!

I called the Telco and much to my surprise they said that they would repair the line free of charge by tomorrow.

-Joe

The propane company should be the ones responsible, but it the phone company is willing to just do it, I wouldn't worry about it. The propane company SHOULD have called. :rolleyes5:
 
Junkyard,

You are right, it was the propane company's responsibility. If you read through ACT 53 of 1974 it clearly states that.

The FAQ from Miss Dig also says it:

Q: If a homeowner hires a contractor to do excavation work, who is responsible for calling MISS DIG?
A: According to the state law, the excavator must notify the one-call center, not the homeowner for whom the work is being done. If you are a contractor, it is your legal duty to call MISS DIG; it is not the responsibility of your customer.

I was completely surprised that the Tel Co said they would repair for free. It should be the propane company... I was also very surprised at the propane companies "not our problem" attitude. If the Tel Co does charge me, I have every intention of collecting from the propane company, perhaps through small claims court.

Hopefully all goes well, but either way Hamilton Propane will not get another dime from me.

-Joe
 
I told the phone company's agent who severed the line, but she did not seem to care. She was super nice and just wanted to get my service restored.

I even asked if they would please send Hamilton a bill so that Hamilton pays for the repair rather than all of ATTs customers, but she did not seem to think it was worth going after them.

I filed a complaint with the BBB against Hamilton stating that they were not compling with Act 53 of 1974. We'll see if anything happens.

-Joe
 
If the phone company knows it was Hamilton Propane that did the digging, they may be preparing the bill even as we discuss this. :D

Dennis

I'm thinking the TELCO wants to sell you the service, so they will be happy to fix the line and bill the propane company. Funny how that works when the other guy is footing the bill. If you were to need your telco line to call in an emergency, whichever company did not make things right could be in a world of hurt.

Anyway, glad to see that some action is being taken.
 
I’m trying to remember how this went… it’s been years… but when I was having a tree taken down, I suggested to the tree service that they needed to call the electric company and have my overhead service disconnected, or they would be footing the bill for an emergency service call, which I’m sure would be more costly than a scheduled disconnect. “Naaaaw… It’ll be OK.” Snap! Twang! And the line was laying in my driveway.:bawling:

A quick call to the power company (remember when phones didn’t need house power to work?) and when they showed up an hour later, they handed the paperwork directly to the tree guy.:toetap:

The reason states have laws that make the excavating contractor responsible for having buried utilities located is that most property owners have no idea what lays beneath the surface of their yard; some of this stuff has been down there for years, some put in by a previous owner, some running to other customers in existing easements. They rarely give it a thought. Companies that do excavation on a regular basis run into these things on a regular basis, and should know better. I won’t dig on my property deeper than one spade depth without calling for a utility locate… Between gas, electric, phone, and cable TV, there are things buried all around the perimeter of my property. Calling for JULIE, Digger’s Hotline, MISS Dig, or whatever it’s called in your state is cheap insurance… it’s free, and it’s a “Get-out-of-jail-free” card good for two weeks. If I hit something that wasn’t marked, it ain't my problem, even if it shuts down half the nation’s power grid. :willy_nilly: Even if it was marked, so long as you were hand digging and exercising “reasonable care” you’ll likely not be responsible, especially if you can show that the line was at an unexpected depth.

The two week liability limit does kind of put the crimp on DIY projects, and the marks last longer than that, but be aware that the plow type cable and tubing insertion machines leave very little evidence on the surface, and the laser guided pipe pushers leave none. Someone can do a line renewal in an existing easment, and you’ll never know it. The moral is, when the two weeks are going to expire before the job is done, call again. It’s free.

Glad it’s working out without a lot of hassle.

Dennis
 
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A technician from the telco called around noon to find out if I had a dial tone before the break. I asked why and he said he fixed the sever, but still had no dial tone, so he fears the line is broken in multiple places...

Ergh.
-Joe
 
More digging tonight and I found another sever. This one seems to be the first one since I have voltage on one end of it. When I seperated the wires and called my home phone with my cell it rang on the cell rather than giving me a busy signal, so I am confident that this is the first break. I do not know if there is another sever inbetween, but I am going to recommend that he run a new line in the trench from the first sever to the last...

The telco tech gave me his cell number and asked me to call if I found the other sever, otherwise he was going to run a new line from the street.

Hopefully all is repaired tomorrow.

-Joe
 








 
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