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Haas vs Mazak

TModler

Aluminum
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Feb 16, 2006
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IN
I am being pressured by corporate on price!! Whch would you pick a V815 mazak with and integrated 5th axis or a VF-7 Haas with the same and a 15" riser plate in the head to make up the z axis travel? All opinions are appreciated!!!
 
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A Vortex 815 vs a VF-7 with tilting head and 15" riser, isn't that a Haas VR9???

D, a member here has mentioned having a vortex or 2 so maybe he'll have a few seconds to comment on it.

That Mazak sure has a lot more power, rigidity(major design difference), and well, everything else if looking at some specs. Question is, what does the work require, and what actually makes more financial sense? Do you have all the time in the world to get the part done, or do you need the Mazak?
 
Part of the additional price for the Mazak is active temperature control (and part of the additional price is for a name that is no longer what it was).

Our VF7 is an incredible machine for the money. However, put a 4th axis on it with a tall setup and you get quite a bit of variation due to temperature induced Abbe error.

If you are trying to hold tenths then you might be better off with the Mazak, particularly if using a trunnion and you need a riser. The Mazaks I've run seem less sensitive to ambient conditions.

Doug
 
If they are both capable of doing the same job for you, I'd lean toward the Haas and take a nice cash bonus.

If it wasn't my nickel and I had to choose, I'd go with the higher quality, better built machine and that would be Mazak.
 
The two machines being compared are so drastically different, saying they aren't in the same class is an understatement.

It's like asking if you should buy an articulated Volvo dump truck, or a 1 ton Chevy with a dump trailer. The cubic yardage may be similar, but the capabilities are tremendously different. Are you going to haul boulders, or saw dust?
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custom-dump-trailer-1.jpg
 
Joe,
You hit the nail on the head here.

I guess what I am hoping to find here is someone who has overworked a Haas and what the results were.

The machine is going to be doing a little bit of everything, and for some of it the Haas would be a fine choice (I think). But the machine will also be hogging out inconel and high alloy steels with 1/2 inch cuts and driving a 2" - 4" yes drill into blocks of 4140. Tolerance on everything we do at tight (+.001/-.000) and I would rather not have to make an extralight finish cut on everything.

We are replacing a '97 VTC300 which is underpowered, worn out, and badly deisnged to start with.

I do not need another turd to polish...



The two machines being compared are so drastically different, saying they aren't in the same class is an understatement.

It's like asking if you should buy an articulated Volvo dump truck, or a 1 ton Chevy with a dump trailer. The cubic yardage may be similar, but the capabilities are tremendously different. Are you going to haul boulders, or saw dust?
 
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Does Haas claim to be able to do that in those materials? and if so, for how long before the machine can't do it no more ?
 
Get the Mazak... The one and only Haas in our shop will be the one and only ever to sit on our floor. Its surrounded by Mazak's of all variety's and all of them will put that Haas to shame in just about every way possible. The only thing i can say good about the Haas is that i do like their controls. The seem to be done rather well now if those controls could just be put on a machine that was worthy.
 
But the machine will also be hogging out inconel and high alloy steels with 1/2 inch cuts and driving a 2" - 4" yes drill into blocks of 4140.

You just decided it, buy the Mazak.

I've been setup on a Mazak H400, HTC400, and H500. Also on Haas VF2, VF3, and VF4.

I LOVE the Haas control, whereas the Maztrol takes some getting used to and is alittle more awkward for your average G code jockey.

As for HP, Torque, rigidity, and lifespan there is no doubt it's Mazak all the way.

My 2 cents,
David
 
I have worked on HAAS machines for about a year and a half now in an RND setting. I must admit that I really really like the machines, and due to prior experiences with the mazak's I very much distaste the blasted pieces of junk. I like the ease of use on the HAAS. I really like the interface on the control. I have had numerous experiences with service problems on a mazak and don't lie... anyone that has had a mazak has had similar experiences. Mazak's service SUCKS!!! and their machines are one that break down a lot and require a lot of maint. I would buy a HAAS and then when company and parts require a better machine, go to OKUMA. Their controls are bas$-Ackwards (but once you get used to it, it is sooooo much better) that's true but their machines are rock solid and very rarely will you see someone that has a okk that will turn their back on it. They are awesome. I don't think that you can really buy a bad machine but just from the service standpoint I would not touch mazak with a 10 ft. pole
 
Thats funny. All of the Mazak's we have has had less problems than the 2 Haas sitting on the floor and they do all of the heavy work, and maintenance does not get done nearly often enough. I agree Mazak's service is beyond pathetic and i give a big thumb up to Haas. Every time we've had a problem they are there within' 2-3 day's at the most. And usually within' a couple day's of that i get a follow up call asking how the service went. I don't worry about it to much however. I only have to deal with Mazak for a year on a new machine. if we can't fix it ourselves we have an outside source do the work for us after that point. The one thing that really pisses me off is the price of replacement parts from mazak. It seems most of their prices are inflated by at least 5 times of what they should be. But with today's resources you can find most of the stuff elsewhere for a hell of a lot cheaper.
 
overworked a Haas and what the results were.

the reason haas is cheaper is

it's cheaper

there small screws and motors will give up if you run them balls to the walls
i have seen this on lathes and mills

but
i have a mini mill that we drill little holes with that nearly never skips a beet

if what you need is something cheap to play nice with, buy a haas,,, it will do just fine


if not

buy something made for production
there are several
mazak is one of my favorites
 
If they are both capable of doing the same job for you, I'd lean toward the Haas and take a nice cash bonus.

If it wasn't my nickel and I had to choose, I'd go with the higher quality, better built machine and that would be Mazak.

But the machine will also be hogging out inconel and high alloy steels with 1/2 inch cuts and driving a 2" - 4" yes drill into blocks of 4140. Tolerance on everything we do at tight (+.001/-.000) and I would rather not have to make an extralight finish cut on everything.


Cool I got to quote myself...

You answered your own question, Haas is not capable of doing the same job for you. While I believe Haas could cut the part, but not at those numbers. That clearly makes Mazak your better choice between the two. Maybe you should be comparing Mazak to a comparable brand.
 
I have worked on HAAS machines for about a year and a half now in an RND setting. I must admit that I really really like the machines, and due to prior experiences with the mazak's I very much distaste the blasted pieces of junk. I like the ease of use on the HAAS. I really like the interface on the control. I have had numerous experiences with service problems on a mazak and don't lie... anyone that has had a mazak has had similar experiences. Mazak's service SUCKS!!! and their machines are one that break down a lot and require a lot of maint. I would buy a HAAS and then when company and parts require a better machine, go to OKUMA. Their controls are bas$-Ackwards (but once you get used to it, it is sooooo much better) that's true but their machines are rock solid and very rarely will you see someone that has a okk that will turn their back on it. They are awesome. I don't think that you can really buy a bad machine but just from the service standpoint I would not touch mazak with a 10 ft. pole

Exactly which Mazak machines do you have experience with?
 
Mazak 510c Vertical pallet changer, 510 without pallet switcher, FH 4800 with 12 pallet palletech, 200st Integrex. The first machine that I ever had experience with was the 510 pallet changer. The probing option was never figured out with it, and never worked correctly, the pallet changer constantly hung up when trying to switch pallets out which the problem came out to be that the machine was cutting it's own wires apart on the y axis the wires were rubbing and finally just cut through them. The next 510's spindle went out within 2 months of running, and that is mind you at not max RPM. nor a abusing shop. The FH has been nothing but stress the whole time chasing toolchanger problems, spindle problems, hydraulic pump problems and now a hyd. oil leak that is dumping 5-7 gallons a week into the coolant. The integrex has been sitting on the shop floor for 2 weeks now and it's not even close to being ready to run (this is not mazak's deal, a local service dude and due to the complexity of the system) but I am hoping that it's not going to be another headache. I am not saying that they are completely bad machines, they seem to have their cult following. I also am not saying that HAAS is an all day all night .0005 tolerance machine. I think that the HAAS is easy to set up and is plenty rigid enough for us to cut + - .001 parts out of 17-4 in an R&D setting though. I believe that the HAAS is a great machine, and that if you are just getting started and need something that is friendly and easy to use it's awesome and I get SOO sick of hearing all you @$$-hats jawing off about how big of a piece of junk that they are. I conversely think that the mazak is a decent machine, however their service and need of maint. has put them in a bad position in my book. There is a lot more precision and rigid machines out there for the money. A "good" mazak will cost as much as a "good" okuma, or fairly competitive mori. That being said I am done in this thread. It is going nowhere. I am a believer in the saying "dont argue online-win or lose you still come out looking like a moron"
 
I know what the problem with those Mazak's are... They've been pussy footed their whole life in an RND setting. They are ment to work. Unlike a Haas which fits the RND ideal perfect.
 
I dont think either is going to push a 4" diameter drill in 4140. you may have to look at some sort of gantry mill with 50-75 hp head and massive colums and preferably box ways. and then I still would make the dealer show me the machine could do it. I know from experiance the Junkford SDMC-6000 double gantry with 50 hp wont push a 2.5" in a-36 9" deep in low range!

let us know what you get and if it does it.
and I do agree that Mazak service sucks compaired to Haas, But mazak has better iron.
 
Mazak builds a staggering variety of machines, with tons of options available. This, combined with the typical corporate rush-to-market philosophy, has certainly let problem machines get out in the field over the years.

But, usually for these "problem" machines, when the bugs get worked out, a Mazak becomes a reliable, long-term workhorse.

I agree Mazak's service is marginal at best. Again, this is a result of a machine tool company growing too fast, and selling too many different kinds of machines.

greg
 
Now I aint got no horsies in this race, but I hafta question that last post...

Mazak has grown too fast and is having growing pains?

And your comparing this to HAAS? :confused:


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