DNC from USB

Maybe this belongs in the "Haas secrets" thread, but I thought that I'd start a new one. Someone was asking me about this, and maybe others can use it, too.

Newer Haas controls with USB ports can run programs direct from the USB flash drive. Haas calls it FNC for 'file network control.' (I don't know if it is different from the old DNC in any practical way.)

Insert your flash drive, hit List Programs, select the USB page and hit Enter. Scroll to the program you want, hit Select Prog. The control will show the program on screen, saying something like "FNC USB:O00101.nc"

It does not store the program in internal memory, and it will give an error if you remove the USB drive while the program is active.

I'm running version 16 of the control. Don't know how far back this goes, and I don't know the limit on file size, or if there is one. Maybe someone who has used it can give more details.

I've used it for programs up to 90MB so far with no trouble.


edit: typo.

CCC said:

I don't know the limit on file size, or if there is one.

Click to expand...

None that I've found, and I've run 80 mega byte files with hundreds of thousands of 500IPM roughing moves. It never skipped a beat.

DNC'ing from the USB

Questions from a newbie,

1, Can programs that have sub-routines calls or loops in them be run from a USB thumb drive?

2. Are there any limitations on the type of files that can be run from a USB thumb drive other than the size limit on the particular USB thumb drive?

3. Also, can you only start the program from the beginning or can it be started at a particular tool change when running a program from the USB thumb drive?

4. Can a program be started at a particular tool change instead of at the beginning of the program when running from a USB thumb drive?

5. My machine currently only has 1 meg of memory. If I can run programs directly from my USB thumb drive. What would be the advantage of upgrading my HAAS system memory to 16 megs?

Thanks in advance for any input.

John

USB is a network protocol. Have you guys ever tried connecting the computer directly to the machine via usb?

You'd eliminate the need for the thumb drive entirely. The same way you're running the program off the portable, you'd be running the program off the host computer. This assumes the firmware on the machine is enabled to be connected to the PC as an external device. I've never run one, let alone tried this, but it should be easily verified with a laptop by anyone curious.

The only caution needed would be preventing too many machines from serving programs off the same hard drive. 90MB is paltry for modern computers, so I have a feeling you could run a couple dozen before data throughput would become problematic on all but the oldest of IDE drives.

HelicopterJohn said:

Questions from a newbie,

1, Can programs that have sub-routines calls or loops in them be run from a USB thumb drive?

2. Are there any limitations on the type of files that can be run from a USB thumb drive other than the size limit on the particular USB thumb drive?

3. Also, can you only start the program from the beginning or can it be started at a particular tool change when running a program from the USB thumb drive?

4. Can a program be started at a particular tool change instead of at the beginning of the program when running from a USB thumb drive?

5. My machine currently only has 1 meg of memory. If I can run programs directly from my USB thumb drive. What would be the advantage of upgrading my HAAS system memory to 16 megs?

Thanks in advance for any input.

John

Click to expand...

1. Local subs, yes.
2. File types? The thumb drive doesn't give a damn what extension is used.
3/4. You can start at M0 and tool changes.
5. The only down side from running directly off the thumb drive is you can NOT edit programs. You must save the program to memory to edit at the control.

My shop computer is about 3' away from the control, so it's easy to just make changes on the computer and drag/drop the newly saved file onto the thumb drive and pop it into the control again.

Jim, I've tried simply plugging a USB cable into the control from the computer and it apparently is not that simple. The computer does not reckognise the control as a drive or a folder. I've done all the reading I could get my hands on and I'm firmly convinced that only a super genious can set it up. (ok, not really, but I just don't get it)

It's going to have more to do with how you have your networking configured on the host than the machine's interface. You're not running the machine off the computer, you're accessing a file off the network which happens to simply be the computer.

I have a feeling Haas has drivers for your computer that would allow visibility within windows, but they're not likely to be freely giving those out because it's probably linked to their service applications and my guess (I could be entirely wrong here) is those are somewhat well guarded.

I'm only a moderately competent computer geek, so I can't just "tell you" what to try on this one. Apple (which I despise using) had a function on their laptops where you could power up a laptop as a firewire hard drive - big whoop! It disabled the laptop from functioning as a computer while it was slaved to the other computer. With windows you can create the network while both machines are still fully functional. USB is no different.

Try making the folder you have your program stored in "shared" and then try finding it again from the machine's control.

Help

Hi Jim and Matt,

Thanks for all the information. Just trying to get a better handle on the HAAS USB port and it capabilities and to how best use it to my advantage.

My Current Setup:

I have a desktop computer out in my shop that is networked with my house computer running on a wireless network. I have my CAM programs shared via a wireless network and I am able to edit them at the shop computer with the CAM dongle installed on the shop computer and save the files back to the desktop computer after any editing. I currently just copy the needed files to a USB thumb drive off the shop computer USB Port and load them into memory and run them like Matt is doing.

JIM: You said: Try making the folder you have your program stored in "shared" and then try finding it again from the machine's control.

If I understand you correctly you are just plugging a USB cable from the USB Port on the HAAS Control and Plugging it into a USB Port on your PC.

Currently my shop computer is on a roll around stand and it is not convenient to keep it right next to the HAAS control. I wonder how long of a USB cable can safely be used to connect the HAAS control to the PC i.e. 10 to 15 feet. If I can figure all this out I may purchase a Laptop that I can put next to the HAAS control with a short USB cable like Matt has done.

I will try hooking up a short USB cable I have to the shop computer and see if I can find the CAM files in a shared folder like you have suggested.

My HAAS Control also has the RS232 outputs on the back of the cabinet. I have read the HAAS manual on how communications can be done via this method (DNC'ing). What would be the pros and cons of using the USB port to retrieve programs instead of the RS232 port. Which one would be faster, more reliable etc.?


You guys are the best. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with a newbie.

John

USB cable

Hi Jim,

If I am understanding you correctly I will need a male to male USB2.0 cable to hook the HAAS Control to PC USB port as both of these receptacles are female like the one shown in the attached link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/6-FT-1-8M-USB-A...|240:1308|301:1|293:1|294:50#ebayphotohosting

Then hook that male to male cable between the HAAS control and the PC. Put the CAM N/C files in a shared folder on the PC and I should be able to see them on the HAAS control when I go to the USB port in list files.

All I currently have is a USB extension cable one end is male and the other end is female. Guess it is time for a trip to Radio Shack.

John

Yep, it's just a matter of the computer knowing to allow something else access to the folder over the network.

You create a network connection between all USB devices. That's how you get your memory stick readers built into your printer/scanners and such. The reader shows up as it's own drive in windows due to the drivers loaded into the operating system to see that port as a drive.

USB is limited to something like 126 devices on a single channel, so you're not going to run out of connections in a typical situation. The length of transmission is a spec I've forgotten (it's way up there though - like 300 feet). You can get the cable ends (from digikey or mouser) and make your own out of twisted pair wire. The two inside conductors are the signal wires, and the outside two are for external power (which isn't used in this type of application).

Feel free to PM me if you want more help. I was just scrolling down the forums list when I saw this one on top and decided to poke in here. I'm just now doing my intro to cnc course and haven't run anything yet.


Oh, as for the serial cable vs usb cable being more reliable - either one has the same function so it's a matter of personal preference. I'm not sure what the data transmission rate is for the serial cable, but my (very limited) understanding of cnc code is that it's so paltry a volume of data that you could practically hand key the binary and not slow the machine down too much. Honestly, I'd go serial just because you have no ability to yank the cord if it's screwed into the port. USB lacks that insurance.

USB has the advantage of allowing you to add a hub to the end of your long cable run and connect several machines to the same file host computer. Serial is a single device connection, so you'd need a whole new cable for every machine, and then you'd probably need to start adding serial port cards to the host after you used up the one or two that it has.

Anyone try it yet?

DNC'ing

Hi Jim,

I tried out DNC'ing via the RS232 port on the back of the machine and it seems to work fine using the MDI and hitting the MDI button twice to activate the receive screen. I am now able to run files via that method over my wireless network to the HAAS control via a RS232 cable with a Null Modem adpter on one end.

I wasn't able to find a USB Male to Male cable locally. I see them on the internet and will order one and give it a try but it will take a little time to get the cable. All I had was a USB male to female extensioon cable.

Many thanks for your help.

John

Oh, you'll have many opportunities to return the favor down the road.

I'm learning the fundamentals of modern cnc right now in school. Next fall I'll be learning more in depth programming (and surfcam), and at some point over the summer I hope to be building a cnc router/plasma table to utilize the new skills.

USB Protocol

Hi, I don't know much about CNC stuff, but I do know how USB works.

USB is a Master-Slave protocol, not a Peer-Peer protocol, so you will not be able to connect your computer directly to the machine's USB port without some electronics in the middle.

This is why USB uses A and B connectors - to distinguish masters from slaves (aka devices). The masters send 5V out on two of the USB pins. The slaves/devices expect to see it there and will often use it to power themselves. If you connect two USB masters together they will both be sending out 5V, which could cause some problems (especially if they have different grounds).

It is possible to make a device that acts as a slave to each end of its USB-A type connector to do what you want, but it must have its own microcontroller in the middle to forward the messages back and forth it is not a simple cable.

Thanks ftl, I'd rather be wrong than be responsible for cooking someone's machine's port.

Uh that was me

I was the one who asked the original question. We have a 2006 or so era vf-1 that has a short lived version of programming for the usb FNC option. We had an onsite trainer come out to give some training on our newer TM-2 and I asked him how to DNC from the usb on the VF-1 and he could not get it to work till the next day after calling for help! On our VF-1 you have to be in the DNC/FNC mode and type in the text name of the saved program and press something like list program or select program I can't remember right now I haven’t used it in a several months. As for hooking a computer to the usb port that is not an option you can only use a usb thumb drive and they can be finicky for those. The good thing is you can get 16 gig thumb drives now Thought I would pass on what I have learned and thanks for the help.

Jim Shaper said:

Serial is a single device connection, so you'd need a whole new cable for every machine, and then you'd probably need to start adding serial port cards to the host after you used up the one or two that it has.

Click to expand...

At one shop I worked at, we had a switch box networking the machines to the host computer. The host was connected to the box via serial cable, and the machines in the shop were connected to the box via serial cable. You would just switch the box to whatever machine you were going to send a program to. We never did any dripfeed with that, though.