6" Face mill in VF-5/40 Vertical Mill

Ok Guys, Back to the MAX Size Question.

I started this in Acuvue's thread but wanted more people to take a gander and voice their opinion.

I am being forced to put a Six inch Face mill in my small VF-5 Haas for a series of large quantity parts that are being moved to this machine.

Anybody have any spindle problems with a Face Mill of this size? 6.0"

Also can the machine automatically change the tool if the weight is at or below the stated 12 pounds?

I know the machine specs state that the Max Diameter of tool is to be 3.5" but I have a 5" Face mill mounted in the VF-7 and it works fine with the tool changer.

I believe a 6 inch face mill will require some sheet metal modification in the tool change area to clear tool on my smaller VF-5. Both Machine have the Side Mounted Carousel.

I have it in mind right now to manually change the 6 inch face mill right now.

I was wondering about the fly wheel effect or killing my spindle bearings early by going oversize.

I can't use a smaller face mill and go around these parts as they are "Explosion Proof" and have a finish and flatness requirement that often times requires a re-mill pass even using a one pass tool in both Roughing and finishing operations.

This project is going ahead and pushed by the snow plows in upper Miss-Management.

I will be Dry Face-milling 20 Cast Iron, Painted or Plated parts at once in Hydraulic fixtures.

Let me know what you think.

Mohawk

Any clearance issues and I do this. Make a mock up of a shell mill out of cardboard and just tape it on a tool holder. Try changing tools. This way nothing gets damaged if something hits.

If deciding on using a tool this big be very sure to keep your gage length as short as possible. Be aware that using a tool this big increases your chance of breaking a pull stud. So make sure your pull stud looks nice and is fairly new.

If the load isn't crazy high than I don't see it being as bad for your bearings as a 3 inch shell mill if the loads are the same and balance is the same.

Oh one more thing. If your machine is over 4 years old and is belt drive change the belt. If the belt breaks while machining the machine doesn't know anything until one of the servos overload. Not a good thing for your spindle since the part will push very very hard on your stationary spindle. It can break a ball in the bearings.

I'm not clear if you have the side mount tool changer or the carousel but if the side mount tool changer you can flag it as an over-sized tool and it Will keep a pocket empty on either side. On machines with the carousel you will also have to have an empty pocket on either side, not so much as to avoid hitting a tool already in the carousel but making sure the spindle enclosure clears the tool when moving down in Z. I agree the mill should handle the tool as long as YOU keep in mind this ain't no 50 taper machine and adjust feeds, speeds and depth of cut accordingly.
Good luck,
Carl

Sorry guys. I have the Side Mount Magazine holding 40 Tools.

Great Idea about making a Mock Up Tool to try.

I had also planned on keeping this tool as Short as I can.

I already have in the mag 8 tools that are Large and Heavy.

I even have multi dimensional Form tool that we had to play a bit to make work that is at 13 pounds of weight. But it takes the place of 5 tools in one hit.

I have also Offered Cold Cash to our Haas Maintenance team and the Haas Rep that if they found a way to let me assign pockets I would gladly pay them cash on the side.

No Go.. AND I have reports that it will never happen.

I could regain lots of pockets if I could assign the tools.

The way the Haas changes tools I could put a skinny tool like a drill or tap between my large heavy tools and be quite happy.

Any other suggestions?.. Jump on in here the water is fine.

Mohawk

I've wondered if it would be worthwhile making a custom spacer and mount it on the toolholder flange in such a way as to make it mimic a "Big" face contact toolholder. It would sure help stiffen up a large radius tool.

What would you make the spacer out of?

I really don't want to add weight to a machine that has such a low tool weight limit.

Or add to the Fly wheel effect at higher RPM's.

But maybe a spacer made of a soft Aluminum like 3000 series or something to help deaden any vibrations will be beneficial, and still add some to the support to the tool.

What cha think guys?

Mohawk

How much gap do you measure between the spindle face and the toolholder? Can't be that significant of an amount of weight to add, but it would need to envelope the drive keys so that the spacer is one piece and completely captivated.

The weight isn't going to mechanically tax the bearings whatsoever and the pullstud force is many times higher than the tool weight as well. You'll know you have a momentum problem if the spindle craps out on start or stop because the accel/decel ramp is too steep for the load.

As for how much it would help, you tell us I presume you are already having vibration problems that you suspect are due to the tool?

Hey Mohawk

Sounds like it isn't your machine, and they aren't giving you any options regarding this size tool in that particular machine, so I say "Go For it". Push the green button and hold your a$$. I don't think you will have too much trouble running it as long as it is balanced.

I made a custom 6" facemill for light duty facing and it is fine. I also made custom 16" facemill that uses the "shearhog" style insert that I used because the part was so huge I didn't have enough travel to face the part in one op. I had to remove almost 1/4" on a mold we had (cast aluminum) and it was slow, but the finish was excellent and flat.

I didn't attempt to change tools with the 6", since I think the opening for the side mount t/c is like 6", and I didn't need to change tools. I think the cardboard template to check it is a good way to see if you will clear, then go for it. I think you will be fine.

Get some video's for us!

Your Exactly right, It's not my machine and I am being forced to do this.

I did plan on Hand Changing the Tools but now the safety department has stepped in and said due to the long reach the operator can not hand change tools, I must make the machine do it.

I think I got around that one.

But now having a hard time finding a 6" face mill with a Cat 40 Tool Holder for the Haas. ISCAR is Quoting me 12 to 16 weeks lead time and $1,500 to $2,000 just for the Tool Holder alone. Still waiting on Valenite, Carboloy and Kennametal to get back with me.

The Mock up was a great Idea. I do have a 5.00" in the Hass VF-7 that's changing fine into the side mount carousel.

Thanks Guys.

Mohawk

New tools time?

All the mills I use are umbrella style tool changers so this might not help. When I have a large tool in my programs I set a ghost tool in the tool mapping on both sides of my large tool so there are no clearance issues. Kennametal has several face mills 6" and larger (FIX-PERFECT — Cast Iron 12.5 pounds) I don't think the extra 1/2 pound is going to hurt the spindle bearings. Good luck!!

It's not finding a 6" Face Mill that's a problem.

It's finding one for a small Cat 40 Tool Holder that is the big problem.

And the Spindle bearings were not my primary worry.

The Haas Tool Changer on this small Mill won't change a tool over 12 pounds.

We had to change parameter settings, install an Air Pressure Gauge and an adjustable air valve and slow things down to change a tool that was a tad over 12 pounds. And it still sometimes hung up and alarmed out.

Anything heavier than that we now hand load.

Also, Notice when they advertise the weight of the Face Mill at 12.5 lbs. That's not including the Tool Holder, Retention Knob, Inserts and insert hardware.

Been there, Got the T-Shirt.

I think we finally convinced the Bean Counters in charge that this is not the way to go.

Thanks

Mohawk

Mohawk72 said:

I think we finally convinced the Bean Counters in charge that this is not the way to go.

Click to expand...

Got them to listen to you finally, eh? Way to go!

Yea, I guess.

The only way they finally did listen is the cost of the Tools.

Typical Bean Counters.

I wanted two tools so the machine is not sitting while the operator rotates or changes inserts. And that seemed to be too much for the number crunchers.

I tell you Manufacturing in this day and age is really tough when you have to deal with book learned kids that have never spent a minutes at a machine of any kind.

Good Luck to the rest of you.

I'm off to Hang a Sign on the Head Shed's Door.

"Behind Here.... There be Demons"