Side mount tool changer tool stations

Just got in a new vf-3ss with the side mount tool changer. The only thing I really dislike so far is the random pocket assignment that it uses to store the tools in the carousel. Is there a setting to have it be fixed? ie: tool#1 always in pot#1 etc...all of our other machines (mostly Kitamura) are setup this way. Any help would be appreciated. i am also awaiting an e-mail from Haas.
Thanks!

Good Luck with that.

I have had a few discussions with the Haas Rep and even offered Cold Cash in his pocket if he could tell me a way.

If I could assign pockets I would gain 11 pockets in my 40 tool side magazine.

If anybody knows a way, I hope they jump in.

Mohawk

I've seen this question posted before. My question is: how would it work? If the machine has tool #1 in the spindle and it wants to load #2, where is it supposed to put #1 after the tool change? Do you want to wait for the ferris wheel to come around and pick up the tool? If you're going to do that, why not just save the $6K and get the umbrella tool changer?

Mohawk72 said:

.....If I could assign pockets I would gain 11 pockets in my 40 tool side magazine....Mohawk

Click to expand...

How do you do that?? We have a 24 tool side mount changer and it is possible to have 25 different tools in use counting the one in the spindle. There is no way to increase the capacity by assigning tools.

Depends if he is using oversized tooling or not.

I'm with Donkey on this one...
How else would it work without defeating the purpose of a sidemount in the first place????
Random pocket means never to wait for a tool. It takes it from whenever it is ( it knows where it is) and immediately puts it wherever it can ( it knows where it puts it)
If the Kitamura is set up with organized loading, then there must be times when you are waiting for a tool to become available.
Unless of course you have a double carousel or an uberfast changer.

PhillipM said:

Depends if he is using oversized tooling or not.

Click to expand...

Ah, yes, with oversize tools you lose a pocket each side so I suppose if you could assign locations you could match large with small.

Okay, that could make it worthwhile as an option because you are getting a benefit in return for accepting slower changes.

All I can say is I love it.....had the umbrella type for years and years and years.....

now have the side mount and holy crap its fast, the more you run your job the closer the tools get to each other and the tool changes are about 1.5 to 2.5 secounds apart.

TRY IT YOU"LL LIKE IT! just give it a month and you will see.

if you need to know where the tool is go to the offset page and page up or down untill you set the pockets and what tools are in those pockets.

as for i don't care where the tool is as long as the machine gets the right on for me.

Just call up the next tool anytime during the previous operation so its staged and ready to change. That’s what nice about the side mount changer, you don’t have to wait for the slow umbrella style to put away the first tool then rotate maybe as many as 10 pockets before you get to your next tool. Just stage your tools in the program and you will love it.

Yes I have 6 Oversized tools in the Magazine now and some are heavy enought that it was told to me I better space them out around the 40 tool magazine so I have 11 Empty pockets just crying for tools.

I love how the Haas rotates the next tool into place, Instead of pulling the tool straight out past the adjoining tool.

So this is the perfect type of magazine to assign tools to each pocket.

On 95 percent of my programs I have enough work going on with each tool that even a dog slow tool changer will have the next tool in the ready pocket waiting.

On the other 5% of the programs I can afford to wait for the tool.

It just seems a shame I can't have it both ways.

Some of my other 67 machines that are random I can set the tools as assigned.

On some of my machines I have 120 tools so I am not limited to only having 23 tools in my 40 tool magazine like I am with the Haas.

That's my complaint, I wish it could be fixed.

But I now have tool carts set up by the machine for the set up man.

L8tr

Mohawk

As with the all of the Kitamuras, I pre-stage the next tool normally after my g43 line so the next tool is waiting. When it swaps tools the pot stays down until the carousel rotates back to the corresponding position, so there really isn't any waiting. I guess for me, it's not a big deal to get used to, I just try to keep things as simple as I can for the setup guys....New setups will require them to clear the previous assigned tool pockets Now there is one more thing for them to screw up!

Mohawk72 said:

Yes I have 6 Oversized tools in the Magazine now and some are heavy enought that it was told to me I better space them out around the 40 tool magazine so I have 11 Empty pockets just crying for tools.

It just seems a shame I can't have it both ways.

Some of my other 67 machines that are random I can set the tools as assigned.

On some of my machines I have 120 tools so I am not limited to only having 23 tools in my 40 tool magazine like I am with the Haas.

Mohawk

Click to expand...

67 MACHINES!!!!!!!
120 TOOL MAGAZINES!!!!
Hawk - Why the heck did you buy a HAAS? That is like having a garage full of porsche's (let's say 67 of them) and throwing in a Neon. (oh please post some pictures of those 67 machines...I'm drooling over here!)

Don't hate me Haas guys - I have a VF-3SS - I'm just askin...

Heheh, The 67 machines is not the problem, The 25 different families of machines and controls is my big problem. Some are old and some are fairly new.
Some are just strange. But it's a living.

The Haas were forced on us by the Bean Counters and powers that be.

Not a bad machine, There is lots to like. But I know they are in the cheap end of the spectrum and I can't see putting all my eggs in one basket.

The thigs that really hurt is being stuck with a small Cat 40 Spindle and then being forced to machine Cat 50 work on a small machine. We do have a few Haas machines now though. An EC1600 Horizontal Mill, A VF5 50/24/40 with two pallets and VF7 and a new VF7 being delivered in a few weeks.

Pictures? I would be embarrassed for anybody to see how they let these machines look now days. It used to be operator Pride to keep your machines clean, But in these cut back days all I have left is people with 40 years in the job and can't get them to make the extra effort to wipe a machine down. And Supervisors with no balls letting them get away with it.

I have been in this business since 1969 as a kid and I have never seen it as bad as now days.

Good Luck to ALL

Mohawk

That's true, hawk

My last shop I had 12 guys running nc mills and lathes under me (I know, it's nowhere near 67). The old guys let everything look crappy while the younger guys always spent time to wipe the machines down, mop the floor, clean tool carts and tool crib, and normally did it when the spindles were turning. We would usually alter machines so all the machines would get cleaned every couple of months.

We painted the floors, walls, had the place looking pimp. Since I've been gone now almost 3 years, the couple of younger guys also left after me, and they hired more older guys and the place looks like complete crap. Nobody wipes the machines down, floor is nasty, .. . No pride, IMO.

Doing 50 taper work on a 40 taper Haas. Sounds like the bean counters need to learn ROI!

Anyway - like you guys are finding out, I also don't think you can at this time assign pockets. I would think that a software fix could solve it, but I honestly don't think Haas would have the interest in doing it, since like some have said, the beauty behind this style of tool changer is the speed. Coming from the umbrella style myself, to this side mount, I can say that I wouldn't want to wait for the thing to rotate before the tool gets put away and machine starts back up.

The reason that assigned pockets works so well on horizontals with racetracks is the tool arm can disappear behind the door and put the tool away, then get the next tool, while the machine is running. That eliminates the waiting on those machines. I think the Haas horizontal won't do that, though.

The other bummer is that on the haas, the tool table doesn't hold any alphanumeric data, so you end up having to keep lists on pieces of paper, or save the list as a file. Even our 11yr old bridgeport/heid stores tool description. /rant over

Remember, if you can see in a pocket a tool you want to use, in MDI instead of calling a tool with T(number), you can do P(number) to call the tool that is in a certain pocket.

It may be a bit off putting at start, but it does make for faster tool changes, the next tool being ready and waiting before it is required. I'm not too impressed with the rapid traverse speeds on our new vf-6 either. Or the fact that if you leave the machine for 10 minutes stopped, when you return to it it complains of a 'y axis servo overload'. Or the fact that the thru-coolant doesn't work on large u-drills.

Apparently the thru-coolant problem is a design fault, said a haas engineer. Something to do with a 45psi switch instead of a 75psi one. The guy said it was common, and to make a complaint about it.

I'm not convinced about the new haas yet.