What's new
What's new

Buying a 2004 TM1, seeking advice

Prototyper

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Location
Kalispell, MT
Hi,
I just came across an opportunity to buy a 2004 TM1 in excellent condition, and I think I just might do it. I have not gone to look at the machine yet (it is an hour drive), but from talking to the guy selling it, and pictures, it looks great. I have a few things to work out first.

Besides getting financial arrangements (the wife) in place, I am most interested in determining if I can fit it through my 7' garage door. Has anyone actually done this, and if so, what was involved? If someone has a TM1 sitting nearby, would you be willing to take a tape measure and see what the absolute highest point on the machine is, that is not readily removable? I assume I would have to pull the braking resistor, possibly the Z-axis servo motor, possibly the flexible conduit to the Z, etc. From what I have found through searching on this subject, is that is will be a serious squeeze. I really don't want to have to tear into the trim around the door opening, as it is sided and has aluminum clad trim, but if that's what it takes to have a Haas in my garage!....

I run a small business from my home, specializing in custom design, fabrication, and machining. I have a 3-axis knee mill that I rebuilt, and retrofitted with Mach 3 based controls. This has been an awesome project as I have learned a LOT about electronics, and having the mill has giving me the opportunity to cut my teeth in CNC.

I am ready to graduate to a real machine, and concentrate my business around that capability. My main goal is to develop a line of accessories for consumer electronics. This will involve prototyping parts, and ultimately, machining basic injection molds. Is it realistic to assume that I will be able to do quality mold machining in steel on a TM1. I have no misconceptions about the machine being a full blown machining center. I am not trying to be profitable at mold making, so if it is slow, but precise and effective, I will be completely happy.

The TM1 I am looking at is well equipped, and has very low hours on it. It has a tool changer, rigid tapping, coolant, extended chip shields, comes with 20 tools, many of them ER16 and 32 (with collets), two Parlec vises, a seat of 2009 Gibbs 2.5D, etc. The seller was in a similar situation, where he and a friend started a business from their garage, and kept their day jobs. They were trying to be a competitive job shop, and just finally decided they want to get out of it. As a result, the machine has been well cared for, and lightly used.

For those in the know, does all this for under $20,000 seem like a good deal? To me it does, but I have not been closely watching the prices on these specific machines, and this opportunity just came up. I would really appreciate any insight people have to offer. I am sure I will be back with more questions shortly.

Thanks in advance,
Jon
 
It should fit OK if you remove the flex-conduit and braking resistor.

Pick it up sideways with a pallet jack and screw the levelers all the way up.

I have a TM-1 and a VF0E in my garage. (8' door). The VF0E was Snug getting in and the head misses the I-beam by 3/4".:)

Nothing better than a 3-step commute from the kitchen.

Good luck and enjoy.
 
Thanks Cape, that's exactly what I was looking for.

What kind of work do you do with yours? Do you think a TM1 would be a good fit, based on the type of applications I described?

Thanks,
Jon
 
Jon,

I have not been very happy with machinihg steel in my TM-1. Of course I am comparing it to a VF0E. It isn't as rigid of a machine as I had hoped for when I bought it. Also, the coolant guards are less than ideal. Plan on a messy floor.
Is this machine from KD-C? I will send you a PM with my contact info.
Feel free to call me.

John
 
We have two Haas machines and I am pleased with them. We bought a TM1 and were so disappointed we sent it back. Our cheap knee mills had more rigidity.

I'm sure there is a real VMC somewhere that will fit thru that door. $20K will buy a lot of machine these days.
 
I'm sure there is a real VMC somewhere that will fit thru that door. $20K will buy a lot of machine these days.

Hi Doug,
That is something I am debating heavily. I realize it is a buyers market for used machines right now. I have no doubt that I could buy a big, rigid, fully enclosed VMC for the asking price of this TM1. My shop is a big limiting factor when it comes to the scale of machine I am able to take on. I have a CNC Lagun mill, Bridgeport, lathe, TIG and MIG welding equipment, benches, saws, sanders and grinders, and material storage in an attached 2 car garage, in a suburban neighborhood!

As much as I would love to have a 8-12,000# machine that could hog steel all day, it just isn't feasible. This mill is also well tooled with holders, collets, 2 vises, etc., which helps to avoid a bunch of additional nickle and dime expenses.

I am sure I could do a lot to improve the chip/coolant containment on the machine. All in all, I think it seems like a good fit, and would be a huge improvement over my knee mill retrofit!

Jon
 
just a thought, but is a used robodrill or brother drill/tap machine more rigid than a small haas? For 20K you could surely find one of these.
 
There is a considerable amount of disassembly that has to be done to get the machine in a 7ft garage door, but I was quoted less than $500.00 to have a Haas guy come out and do it. You'll want to have them out to level and install your machine anyway.

The Haas TM1 is a great machine. It's just a little on the slow side for production, but if you are only doing prototype work, you can't beat it.
 
Prototyper, I've been keeping my eyes open for a used TM1 and they don't come up on the used market that often, and when they do they command pretty high prices.

For that machine with all the options and extra's it has, that's about the best price I've ever seen on a TM-1, although keep in mind I've been looking in the California area and prices are higher out here.

It will do pretty accurate work in steel, just not as fast or quite as accurate as a full size VMC.

Any full size VMC you find for $20k will probably be older and more worn that that machine, but you can find a pretty nice VMC for $20k these days. Keep in mind you would need to come up with a 3 phase power solution for a full size one, while the TM1 will run on single phase.

It's a good deal if you're ok with the fact that its not going to let you compete with most job shops on medium to big orders because of the speed limitations. But if you plan to do mostly prototyping and small runs, its a great machine for that (that's why I want one).

Regarding mold making, Haas quotes the positioning/repeatibility accuracy on the TM1 of 0.0004"/0.0002", while for their bigger VMC's its typically 0.0002"/0.0001", so TM1 has half the basic accuracy. But if you compare it to a used full size VMC that you can afford, it likely will have enough wear on the ball screws to put you back at the TM1 level of accuracy anyway.

If you buy the machine and in a year or two decide to go bigger, you'll do okay on selling it, as I mentioned these machines keep good resale values.
 
I have a TM-1P in my garage. It will fit through a 7' door. I just measured mine. BUT...... the 1/4" weather strip at the top of the door opening had to come off, it is that tight. Haas has a manual for putting the mill together (a new mill). And it tells exactly what needs to be removed to get the mill in a 7' door. I looked for a copy of mine to post, but I can't find it. and I looked on the Haas web site for it but didn't see it. I am sure if you call them they can send it to you. It is a pdf file. I have been happy with mine, but I only cut aluminum.
 
20k seems like a great deal. I think the Gibbs alone might be about 6-8K. Assuming it is a TM-1P with the coolant and tool changer.
 
Thinking of selling my 2007 TM-1P

I have a 2007 TM-1P here in Iowa and although I really like it and it has worked out very nice for me I just don't use it enough to keep it.

I'm going to be selling it over the summer (probably sometime in July) and buying a more basic and older cnc for my needs (I have a Lagun CNC and a SuperMax YCM-40 before this one and will probably return to something like that, both were on Anilam controllers and they were also fine for what I do).

Basically I want to sell my $21.5K Haas and buy a basic late 80's cnc mill, and buy a similar CNC lathe. I have lots of space but my power possibilities are limited.

Anyways my 2007 Haas TM-1P has less than 300 spindle hours on it, 6000 rpm, rigid tapping, chip auger, 12 tool holders, 2 Kurt vises. I'm the second owner.

I can put up some youtube videos if anybody is interested in it. If you have an older late 80's model machine I would like to see what you have. I wish I could get that Kitamura Mycenter I sold to my shop neighbor down in Florida (was only $4500) but he's using it and loving it.

The HAAS overall is very compact and very convenient for the electrical requirements (I use mine with single phase 220v hook up). It also can be moved around with a pallet jack).

I don't cut steel with mine so I don't know how well it does with steel. I cut holes in aluminum thin wall tubing 90% of the time with the load never going over 12%. Previous owner cut some stainless steel brackets and tapped holes in the stainless (basically some 3/16" flat stock).

I'll probably put 100-120 more hours of spindle time on it before it goes out the door (I hope).

PM me or e-mail at francesco at powerglider dot biz
 
Last edited:
Reference

Powerglider is a standup guy and you can deal with him with confidence.

I have seen the machine he has offered for sale when he was here in Florida. If you are looking for a clean LOW Hour machine this is the one for you. I have a similar machine and it is the perfect match for the type of work that i do in my retirement

John
 
We got our TM1 through an (I think) 92" door without removing anything. The spindle nose was about 10 inches off the table when it came off the truck. If you brought that down more, you'd probably have no issues.
We're pretty happy with ours, but we cut mostly aluminum and brass. Way more rigid than the Bridgeport.
 
Getting excited!

Thanks for all the input Guys. It is encouraging to hear the positive sentiments from owners of similar machines. Also, knowing the negatives in advance is a good thing too. I am already planning the improvements to the chip/coolant scheme on the machine. I have a good connection with a guy that owns a large sheet metal fab business. I will be adding some end panels, and a shield across the lower front portion of the machine to add to the "extended chip shield package" the machine already has on it. I am also considering using some of the clear vinyl, walk in cooler door material to contain some of the spray to the actual cutting area. I can't do too much detailed planning until I actually have the machine in my shop.

Just a quick update. I went to look at the mill, and was very impressed. The machine has been well cared for, and only has 611 cutting Hrs on the clock! The guy selling it, and his business partner are both machinists by trade, and the only people that have ever operated the mill. It has not been abused by $8/hr operators it's whole life.

The package I finally negotiated was the machine, 2 Parlec vises, 25 tool holders, 3 ER collet sets, tool presetter and height gauge, 5' tall tooling cabinet FULL of cutting tools, and Gibbscam 2.5D 2009. I think all that for under $20K is a sound investment! It helps big time that I just sold my CNC knee mill last night for $7.5K.

Yup, it's going to be a busy weekend! I am moving machines out, and a new one in on Saturday. I can hardly sleep thinking about all of it!

Thanks again everyone,
Jon
 
very good deal! Since it was a machine you were able to inspect and speak to the owner, then have delivered or you picked it up you can't beat that.

The software and other items you bought with the machine make a big difference in the value and I think you did very well.

You will like working with this machine, I really like mine I just don't use it enough.
 
Thanks for all the input Guys. It is encouraging to hear the positive sentiments from owners of similar machines. Also, knowing the negatives in advance is a good thing too. I am already planning the improvements to the chip/coolant scheme on the machine. I have a good connection with a guy that owns a large sheet metal fab business. I will be adding some end panels, and a shield across the lower front portion of the machine to add to the "extended chip shield package" the machine already has on it. I am also considering using some of the clear vinyl, walk in cooler door material to contain some of the spray to the actual cutting area. I can't do too much detailed planning until I actually have the machine in my shop.

Just a quick update. I went to look at the mill, and was very impressed. The machine has been well cared for, and only has 611 cutting Hrs on the clock! The guy selling it, and his business partner are both machinists by trade, and the only people that have ever operated the mill. It has not been abused by $8/hr operators it's whole life.

The package I finally negotiated was the machine, 2 Parlec vises, 25 tool holders, 3 ER collet sets, tool presetter and height gauge, 5' tall tooling cabinet FULL of cutting tools, and Gibbscam 2.5D 2009. I think all that for under $20K is a sound investment! It helps big time that I just sold my CNC knee mill last night for $7.5K.

Yup, it's going to be a busy weekend! I am moving machines out, and a new one in on Saturday. I can hardly sleep thinking about all of it!

Thanks again everyone,
Jon

Sounds like a great deal. I have a TM2 that I've been pretty happy with. Except for a processor board that crapped out. That was a little more than $4000 to fix
 
I own a 2007 TM-1P and I couldn't be happier. I'm 26, attending university for a mehcanical engineering degree and my shop is in a tiny 2 car garage. I just bought a house and the new garage will be slightly bigger than the previous one. Most of my stuff has been aluminum, some 1018 cold roll steel and Titanium. Sounds like you're on the same boat as I am with limited space, but for the price and what you're getting with a tool changer I say go for it!
 








 
Back
Top