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Haas Horizontals - Good/bad?

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Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
Montco, PA
We need a new machine like yesterday. Currently we are running a 1 year old Okuma MCV 4020 vertical with 4th axis and have been happy with it. However this model is not made anymore and the replacement is $260k with options.

I am thinking a 300 or 400mm horizontal might do the trick instead of a vertical. Moris are big bucks. How are the Haas machines? Does anyone have a Haas horizontal and an Okuma or Mori that they can compare it too?

thanks
 
My brother bought a new Haas horizontal in late December for around 250k. He got the tax write off for new equipment so the final price was about 125k. And he had it shipped direct from California. It might be plugged in by now. I'll check it out.
John
 
The okuma genos mills start around 140k. Nice machines.

There are two mcv 4020's on ebay now.

Btw, I've got an mcv 4020 and I love it. Was dissapointed to find out they stopped importing them.

Oh and there is the bridgeport mill with the okuma p200 control. Looks like a good machine too. Our distributor finally got one on their floor.
 
I remember a thread here mentioned problems with repeatability/accuracy when indexing the pallet, not sure if that got fixed somehow. Probably has much less output power than the competition, and you know you need "real" spindle power if you want to make real chips, likely even more so in a horizontal.

There's still quite a bit of slightly used decent shape horizontals coming up on the market. There's 8 coming out of one place here next week, matsuura, mori, all between 1999 and 2002. My bet is there's more of them in the US.
 
A sister shop had a Haas HMC, 2002-ish. Spindle was a "30 haas power". The spindle was the weak link. No balls. With a 1" feed mill, it held back progress. The newer Makino with 20HP will run circles around it, faster, more accurate, etc. But also twice the price.

My personal take is Haas VMCs can be great money makers for some things. HMCs are usually for production only. A place where floating accuracy can twist you up in knots. Not uncommon on a Haas to have to adjust things every so many parts. Personally, I think spending the coin on a real HMC is the only way to go.

My personal rant. I would NEVER, after dealing with "the" dealer from this site, ever buy another machine from a dealer, especially an HMC. Dealers just love to leave out key issues with machines and you get left holding the bag. HMC are production machines and usually have many hours of WFO use. Of course every dealer will say "low hours and Aluminum only" which means they are full of shit.
 
A Shop we work together with sometimes has an EC-400
When I visited them last time he was running a 125 diameter, about 8mm wide, insert slitting saw in it.
Taking about 30mm deep cut (full depth)(in leaded steel) it didn't make as much noise as I expected, so it seems to be more stable then the VMCs at least
 
No he says the Okuma replacement model is $250 000

I was replying to jhruska, who said his brother bought a Haas HMC for around 250k.

Viper, did you get into a HMC? What did you get?
I have yet to come across a machine tool dealer that actually knew jack about machine tool condition, that is what good service techs are for.
 
Here's my take on the Haas HMCs:

If you're looking to do the same thing you're doing on your Haas VMCs with similar accuracy and finishes, but just want to reach more sides of a part and get more finished parts per load, you'll be very happy. You also get your familiar Haas control, inexpensive Haas replacement parts, and good HFO service.

If you're expecting to get the benefits of a high quality Japanese HMC, like holding ridiculous tolerances on different sides of parts, running production for weeks straight without ever opening the operator door, making hundreds of pounds of chips per day with no buildup issues, etc., you won't be happy.
 
I was replying to jhruska, who said his brother bought a Haas HMC for around 250k.

Viper, did you get into a HMC? What did you get?
I have yet to come across a machine tool dealer that actually knew jack about machine tool condition, that is what good service techs are for.

This is my brother's company, Precision Turbo & Engine - Turbocharger, Intercooler, Fuel Injector, Performance Parts & more!
In December of '98 he called and said his lathe machinist left and would I help him out for a while. So I dropped what I was doing and worked at his shop. All lathe work was done on a small LeBlond lathe, maybe 13" or so. There was so much to do it was nuts. I said, buy a turning center!
Harry knew nothing about CNC. He used to run G & L's and a Scharrman bar.
I said buy it and I will do the rest if he would hire a guy to train.

The first Haas was a SL-20, I think that is the right number. It showed up in May of '99.
Right now the shop has two of the slant 20's, two Hass VMC's, a twin spindle Mazak that can finish a part on one side and the pass it to the second spindle for the second operation.
The new Haas horizontal still had the plastic on it when I saw it. It is a pallette type machine.
The guy I trained, he runs the machine shop now.
As for what was paid for the horizontal mill, it was a lot, I think around 250k.
But it was purchased to use the end of the year tax break incentive Obama write-off or something like that. I did not take notes and I've only got my memory to blame for inaccuracy.
Regards,
John
 
You would be money head to look at Cincinnati, Mori, or Makino or the like builders that actaully put some balls in their machines. Or invest in older American iron that still has some life in them.
 
I bought a Haas EC-1600 loaded in 06 for 290K and has been a decent machine (better than I expected from Haas) I opted for a 5k spindle with gearbox so cutting aluminum is not gonna happen fast but it actualy has some balls for steel! We weld up crusher wear pads with stelite then set it on the 4th axis (8,000 pounds) then face the pads with a 6" ingersall S-max mill and it handles it fairly well for what im puting it through. the draw back is the tool changer arm is about 4 feet long and I dont like standing inside the machine while it changes the cat-50 tools even though the arm takes about 15 seconds to change.

I know somebody is gonna key in and say 290 is too much for a Haas but this is a big damn machine (64" X 54" X 32" I can walk around inside this thing. The A axis can hold a 10k part) and I ordered every option you can get with it all the way from advanced jog handle to 1000 psi TSC.
 
Haas calls it an "A"? :confused:


A shop not too far away bought one of those as well.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
A is not such a big deal. Its having a part the full length of the table clamped down and forgeting to disingage the 4th axis then hit home g28:eek:. I get tired of replacing studs. not to mention re indicating the whole setup.
 
Well, A or B, either way - it sounds like they put some copper in their drive motors! :willy_nilly:



-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
A friend has one at his shop. he cuts allot of cast iron with his and its not happy but works. They are very slow in allot of areas and he has allot of issues with the indexer. Haas even swapped him out for a full 4th axis and he still has issues all the time that things have moved again. While I make piles of good parts he makes phone calls about trying to make parts :) Haas has their place, but you can do better for almost the same money and if you meed a high volume production machine Haas isn't it IMO. Nothing wrong with the haas if your intent is like Joe88 stated above. Check out a Kiwa from Methods with similar options. Very attractive horizontal.
 
I have 4 Okuma MC 60 H's for sale at $98,000.00 each with nice tooling pacakages. Also the Mori SH 50 or MH 50 are great machines

They will be a better fit in the long run then a Haas

Thanks,
Maury Cohn
[email protected]
1-800-888-4312
 
6 out of 7 of Maury's post are sales related.

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