TM1 with a DOA 320V Power Supply

Kevin Wilkins · Sep 21, 2011

Looks like my power supply crapped out. I have had several instances where I started up the machine and received a 292 Error 320V Pwer Supply Fault. Up until today it's gone away after a few restarts, etc.

Not today. I opened the cabinet and the Power Supply shows fault d. in the window which is indicated as an "overload/short fault" in the unit.

The Haas guy came out and checked all the wiring etc etc. Short storey: Looks like everything is OK except the Power Supply is dead. The power goes in but it doesn't come out. We opened the pwer supply and there is no burned electric smell or obviously fried components.

The unit is Haas part number 69-2000C.

Looks like a new is gonna be quite a chunk of change.

Anybody know a guy who knows a guy who can repair these? Or have any other ideas?

Much obliged for any help or ideas!

Andres · Sep 21, 2011

I'll ask a guy I know how much he can get that part for. What year is your TM1?

machineit2 · Sep 21, 2011

I can tell you who can fix it, but they are in the US. Is that a deal ender for you?

Mike

Kevin Wilkins · Sep 22, 2011

My machine is a 2005.

A new one from Haas will be about €1600. Sending mine out to the USA will probably indeed be a deal breaker. I've got a lead on several companies in Germany. I hope one of them will be able to fix mine. I'll be talking to them today.

Still, if you have an outfit in the USA that you know is reliable, I'd appreciate their info. You never know!

Thanks for your help!!

edit: I got my power supply out to a company in wetern Germany to hopefully be repaired. I'll post the results when I have it back.

Edster · Sep 22, 2011

I can't help with the power supply issue, but I did run across something on ebay you might be interested in.

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

Good luck with the ps :cheers:

Kevin Wilkins · Sep 23, 2011

I already saw that on ebay. Doesn't look like I'll be able to get one. But thanks for the tip!

Kevin Wilkins · Sep 28, 2011

Update: Looks good for repairing my power supply. Seems to be the 2 big capacitors that are out. They're about the size of a can of peas. Anybody know a source for these in the USA? The repair guys are checking for an equvient part over here, but if push comes to shove, I may have to order the capacitors from the US.

doug6949 · Oct 3, 2011

I get my big electrolytic caps from Mouser as they seem to have better prices/selection than Newark or Digikey, at least on big caps anyway.

When searching the Mouser site you will have to try several combinations of voltage and capacitance before you find something that is actually in stock. Fortunately, you only need something close, not the exact values.

If you try to get an exact match you may pay four times the cost of a similar part.

Doug

Kevin Wilkins · Oct 4, 2011

Thanks for the tip! I assed it on to the gus who are working on my part.

Do you know in which variables are important on the capacitors and which can vary and how much?

I believe they have found something they think will work and also fit the power supply. Any more tips on what to look for would be much appreciated.

I hope I can be back up end of the week. This will be 2 weeks down and more than that really starts to hurt. This is the only tim in over 6 years I've had the machine down for more than a day or 2 and I really see how dependant on it I am.

doug6949 · Oct 5, 2011

Kevin;

The existing caps should have the values marked on them unless they were sanitized (industry term for removing data to prevent owner replacement). Get the old ones out and take a look.

The values should be voltage (maybe 400V) and capacitance (maybe 2000uF). You can go higher on the voltage but not lower. Capacitance should be kept within about 10% of OEM.

Blown electrolytic caps often literally blow up. Are you sure they are the problem?

I no longer work for the company that owns the Haas machines so I can't peek inside to see what they are using.

Doug

Kevin Wilkins · Oct 5, 2011

Thanks!

I believe the capacitors do indeed have the numbers on them. I know zero about things like that. The people working on my unit hopefully do. They were looking for a european supplier of replacemnts as they say the large capacitors were definitly dead.

There was no apparent damage or burned parts etc to be seen.

The fan was burned out - not mechanically broken - and they were looking for anything that might have caused a voltage spike.

Last I heard yesterday, they were going to test the power supply to see if it was fixed.

This is going on two weeks being down and either they need to get it fixed soon or I will have to just fork out the €1600 and get a rebuilt one from Haas.

machineit2 · Oct 6, 2011

Here's a "D."

Haas 320V 5HP Power Supply (93-69-2000D) | eBay

Mike

doug6949 · Oct 7, 2011

Kevin;

Try to get the numbers as well as dimensions. Even a picture will help. I can cross reference them to available parts.

You should also have the diode bridge checked. A blown diode will cause a similar fault.

Doug

Kevin Wilkins · Oct 8, 2011

Spoke to the guy repairing mine and they have all the capacitors replaced. They tested the power supply and found another component that was not working properly and have ordered the parts which should be in by Monday. If it passes all tests after that, then it's fixed!

According to the repair guys - who seem to have a lot of knowledge about electronics - components have been previously replaced on the the circuitboard in my power supply. They say they can tell what's be de-soldered and resoldered. I bought the machine new and nothing has been done on the pwer supply at all since I bought it.

I know Haas wants the old power supply back when you buy a new or refurbished one from them. Does anybody know if they rebuild old power supplies and install them in new machines?

Jason_S · Oct 10, 2011

All parts installed in a new Haas machine are new/unused parts. Any issues or concerns on new parts found during the build are resolved by replacing and the part and then it is immediately returned to the manufacturer.

When a board is replaced in the field, Haas Automation does request the board to be returned. This is for two reasons. The first is for failure analysis. We can learn about the failures and then design changes to prevent that particular failure from happening again. The second reason is that some boards are refurbished to be sold as a service replacement. It is not possible for a refurbished part to be used on a new machine.

I hope this explanation helps. Let me know if you have any questions.

Kevin Wilkins · Oct 11, 2011

OK, then I reckon if a part was replaced on the boad in my power supply it must have been done before it was installed in my machine. I wondered if Haas installed refurbished power supplies in new machines. Glad to hear they don't.

The reason I asked is because the company working on my power supply asked if it had been previously repaired because they could tell one component had been replaced. Exactly how they could "tell" I don't know but this isn't the first electronic component / power supply they've seen, so I guess there's a way to know if that's your business.

The word yesterday way that they should receive the last component today and should have it all tested and ready to ship back to me on Wed. I sure gope so as this is the 3rd week the machine has been down.

Considering the extended downtime, I'm not going to be saving any money having mine repaired over what it would have cost to just get a refurbished unit from Haas - which would have been here in 2 days max from the order date.

Live and learn!

Kevin Wilkins · Oct 18, 2011

Got my machine back up and running today. The guys working on my power supply got it fixed and tested. It took longer than they first estimated but now they know quite a lot about Haas power supplies and tell me the next one the do will take much less time as they now know how it works, what parts they will need to replace and where to get them. This is the company that fixed it: Netzteil-Service - Wir reparieren Ihr Netzteil in eigener Netzteil-Reparatur-Werkstatt

If anybody in Germany needs similar work I would reccomend these guys. They certainly kept at it and replaced everything inside that was dead or likely to die soon.

Hopefully it'll be going for another 6 years!

That was my first real downtime with the machine in 6 years. Downtime sucks! ;-)

Thanks for the help everyone!

Kevin Wilkins · Oct 28, 2011

Look like my run of bad luck isn't over. Went into the shop yesterday, started up the TM1 and got the same 320V Power Supply error as before.

I called the guys who fixed and it and we went through a few tests. I pulled the outgoing 320V power leads coming out of the PS and the power supply starts fine.

That means I have a problem OUTSIDE the power supply now. Maybe one of the axis motors.

The Haas tech is coming next week to get t the bottom of things.

When it rains it pours.

Kevin Wilkins · Nov 1, 2011

The Haas Tech came over today and it looks like the problem indeed still in the Power Supply.

As soon as the Regen Resitor is attached to the power supply it gives a short / overload fault.

All the motors etc are fine and work normally without the regen resitor attached.

The Regen Resistor means 13.3 ohms which is normal so it doesnt seem to have a fault itself.

Anybody got any ideas?

(Other than just buy a new power supply from Haas and try and get some money back from the people who worked on my old one.)

haastec · Nov 1, 2011

Kevin Wilkins said:
The Haas Tech came over today and it looks like the problem indeed still in the Power Supply.

As soon as the Regen Resitor is attached to the power supply it gives a short / overload fault.

All the motors etc are fine and work normally without the regen resitor attached.

The Regen Resistor means 13.3 ohms which is normal so it doesnt seem to have a fault itself.

Anybody got any ideas?

(Other than just buy a new power supply from Haas and try and get some money back from the people who worked on my old one.)

Unfortunately you have very few options. Either have the original repair shop work on it some more and figure out what is wrong, along with more down time or bite the bullet and get the power supply from your HFO and get back to making chips.

Tough position to be in and I hope you get things sorted out.

Good luck!

One more thing, keep in mind that Haas will probably require the old power supply back as a core return. That may affect how you handle the repair company.

TM1 with a DOA 320V Power Supply

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