Somewhat of a rant

Dave K · Dec 6, 2011

Not really a question, more of a rant. I need another lathe pretty bad. An Haas SL10 will fit 98% of the work I want to put in it.

Been looking used, and they are asking 42,000 for used ones that are 5 years old?
My god, I only paid 43000 for my current one, brand new!! If you want one for 25,0000, you gotta find one that's 10 years old.

I think this is way out of line, don't you?

machineit2 · Dec 6, 2011

It is a free market after all. But, also remember that most prices are ASKING prices and often very inflated. Try offering much less.

The number of machines available are shrinking somewhat, as that section of machining is picking up.

Mike

Dave K · Dec 6, 2011

machineit2 said:
It is a free market after all. But, also remember that most prices are ASKING prices and often very inflated. Try offering much less.

The number of machines available are shrinking somewhat, as that section of machining is picking up.

Mike

Yes, I know it's just an asking price, I don't blame them for trying to get as much as possible, however, when I did ask them if they could take less, they acted as if I were asking them to give it away for free.

All of us who are fans of Haas Machines always have to put up with people saying, "Oh, those cheap junk throw away machines are no good". "I'd rather have a 15 year old well built Japanese machine over a Haas anyday".

That's the kind of garbage we always have to listen to, but boy, when they try to re-sell them, you'll suddenly hear how super nice they are.

Zahnrad Kopf · Dec 6, 2011

Yep. We must have been looking at similar. It's not the balls, it's the attitude. Think you can get huge dollars for your widget? Great. Have at it. But to act indignant when someone tries to counter only invites less than desirable outcomes.

D. Rey · Dec 6, 2011

Totally agree that are very inflated in the used market.

There are three of them on KDs site now.

Seems like they should be mid thirties or so to me. What do I know though...what the market will bear right?

I was looking in October, ended up getting a new St-10 wont be here till early Jan however. One advantage of used is that it gets on the floor faster.

It's just too hard to justify 42-45 k for a four to five year old machine when I can get brand spanking new fully kitted out for 6o, with a warranty, new model features, chip conveyor instead of the auger that just works so - so.

You never know what you are really getting used either...I've bought three used lathes and they all needed work. Admittedly I've had just plain bad luck with used machines.

I wish I could have afforded that live tooling...maybe next time.

Good luck on the search.

tc1999 · Dec 7, 2011

42k for a 4-5 year old machine that was 65-70k (with options) new? Seems about right to me.

Now...if it was the absolute stripped model that is 43k new on Haas' website then we have some negotiating room.

For some reason Haas' do hold value well.

D. Rey · Dec 7, 2011

That is the kicker though, some of these 42k machines are chuckers, or are absent a tool setter or chip removal they are not typically fully optioned, at least with the most popular stuff.

Dave K · Dec 7, 2011

42k for a 4-5 year old machine that was 65-70k (with options) new? Seems about right to me.

These things are 60K with options. And that's the new improved ST model. The earlier model went for about 40K, and options when packaged together right, brought them up to about 45K.

Just got another quote on a 2008 with a bar feeder on it. 52K. If you were to subtract their approximate price, maybe 5 or 6K and forget the bar feeder, the machine is still at 46K. They went for that price when they were new. :eek:

len_1962 · Dec 7, 2011

just so you don't think supply and demand is jacking the price.

look at getting a 1975 Yamaha DT 250 or DT 400, $600 to $700 new, now on EBay Starting at $1000 and up! 30 yrs old! :nutter:

tc1999 · Dec 7, 2011

Dave K said:
These things are 60K with options. And that's the new improved ST model. The earlier model went for about 40K, and options when packaged together right, brought them up to about 45K.

That's the problem though. When the new ones go up and up in price that drives the old ones up also (even though the new ones are arguably better). IOW, you can't buy a new one similar for 43k. You have to spend 60k.

Some goods just are like that. I can sell my boat for more than I paid for it because the new ones are exponentially more expensive.

The same thing is happening with some of the Japanese builders. They are 6-9 months away from delivery for a new lathe so the OLD BEAT up ones are going for pretty much what they sold for new... :bawling:

Dave K · Dec 7, 2011

tc1999 said:
That's the problem though. When the new ones go up and up in price that drives the old ones up also (even though the new ones are arguably better). IOW, you can't buy a new one similar for 43k. You have to spend 60k.

Some goods just are like that. I can sell my boat for more than I paid for it because the new ones are exponentially more expensive.

The same thing is happening with some of the Japanese builders. They are 6-9 months away from delivery for a new lathe so the OLD BEAT up ones are going for pretty much what they sold for new...

Well, I guess when you put it that way, I at least can understand what's happening, but I guess I still don't agree with it. We all know when you buy used equipment like this, god only knows what's happened to that thing before you get it. At this rate, I'm starting to consider new again.

Dave K · Dec 7, 2011

len_1962 said:
just so you don't think supply and demand is jacking the price.

look at getting a 1975 Yamaha DT 250 or DT 400, $600 to $700 new, now on EBay Starting at $1000 and up! 30 yrs old!

Funny you should mention that. When I was a kid in the 70's, I had a mini-bike. It was a Honda CT70. My dad bought it used for me for 100 bucks. New, I think they were around $350.
Unfortunately for my wallet, I found a new infatuation for these bikes, and also found a rather large community of people who worship these bikes. They are now restoring these things to like new condition, and they are selling for 3K and sometimes more. Needless to say, I've got 2 of them now, one of which I'm restoring. So far, I've got about 2K into it. But, it's as much fun now as it was back then. Eh, everyone's gotta have a hobby.

Oh, after I outgrew the CT70, I did move up to a DT100. That thing was top heavy, but it moved!

tc1999 · Dec 8, 2011

Dave K said:
At this rate, I'm starting to consider new again.

Exactly. If you can get one new, then a risky used machine for not a really slamming deal is not really very appealing. However, if you need a machine now and a new one is 8 months away then what are your options?

I'm not sure of Haas' delivery schedule at the moment.

alliancefab · Dec 8, 2011

Dave K said:
Not really a question, more of a rant. I need another lathe pretty bad. An Haas SL10 will fit 98% of the work I want to put in it.

Been looking used, and they are asking 42,000 for used ones that are 5 years old?
My god, I only paid 43000 for my current one, brand new!! If you want one for 25,0000, you gotta find one that's 10 years old.

I think this is way out of line, don't you?

I have to agree. I was looking at used SL's and they were either junk or 40-50k and 5 - 10 years old. I went with a new ST-10 built the way I wanted it came in at 55k. The draw back is they are at an 9-11 week lead time now. I should have mine in 3-4 weeks. The price of all used haas machines are a tad out of touch in my opinion.

Jason,

Dave K · Dec 8, 2011

tc1999 said:
Exactly. If you can get one new, then a risky used machine for not a really slamming deal is not really very appealing. However, if you need a machine now and a new one is 8 months away then what are your options?

I'm not sure of Haas' delivery schedule at the moment.

Well, the last time I checked, and it wasn't too long ago, your "8 months away" is not too bad of a guess. I think they were around 9 the last time.

Anyway, It's more than I am comfortable spending right now, so I'm looking at a couple hardinges. One of them has live tooling. If I'm forced to spend 40K, Im not going to settle for a straight lathe, I'll take one with live tools.

SRT Mike · Dec 17, 2011

Dave K said:
Well, the last time I checked, and it wasn't too long ago, your "8 months away" is not too bad of a guess. I think they were around 9 the last time.

Anyway, It's more than I am comfortable spending right now, so I'm looking at a couple hardinges. One of them has live tooling. If I'm forced to spend 40K, Im not going to settle for a straight lathe, I'll take one with live tools.

Maybe some of the lathes are a lot different than others or the mills, but in the last few months I have looked into the SL10, DT-1 and VF2 series, and all were quoted in the 8-12 week range, give or take a few weeks.

8 months seems outrageous.

tc1999 · Dec 19, 2011

I thought that Haas was in the 8-12 week also...

and yes Mike "8 months seems outrageous"

and 8 months to wait for a Haas is...to quote an acquaintance - (flippin) retarded. :nutter:

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