Haas lathe rigidity?

Being that horsepower is NOT my main concern, but rigidity IS, has Haas made their linear guide systems more rigid over the years? Are they STILL chatter boxes? Thanks in advance.

Compared too....... Under what cutting conditions..... Kinda hard to comment meaningfully without more info, are you trying to take a 1/2 depth cut or what?

John_B said:

Compared too....... Under what cutting conditions..... Kinda hard to comment meaningfully without more info, are you trying to take a 1/2 depth cut or what?

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I know it is always relative, but I guess the first part is, are they all linear rail/guide machines? 2nd part...Compared to ANY other CNC/NC lathe you personally have experience with, IF you name that lathe and any particular things that set it apart from a Haas lathe. Super deep cuts are not needed. More shallow cuts at faster feed rates can USUALLY get around that. At least in my applications. Whatever 2 cents you got to throw in is fine. I am not gonna bitch about any opinions on the issue much less sue anyone.

I dont have much experience with other machines, but i can tell you what were doing on our ST10 now.

1.0 kyocera insert drill at 1.032 diameter, 500sfm, .003feed into 52100 takes 68% spindle load, but runs great *knock on wood*.
Parts off with iscar cutoff at 33% load, 300sfm .002feed.
Brand new machine with barfeed, doesnt shake, rattle or roll, holding size so far.

Long story short, no complaints from me about rigidity.

Smrtman5 said:

I dont have much experience with other machines, but i can tell you what were doing on our ST10 now.

1.0 kyocera insert drill at 1.032 diameter, 500sfm, .003feed into 52100 takes 68% spindle load, but runs great *knock on wood*.
Parts off with iscar cutoff at 33% load, 300sfm .002feed.
Brand new machine with barfeed, doesnt shake, rattle or roll, holding size so far.

Long story short, no complaints from me about rigidity.

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Does not have chatter problems on cut off operations? That is a good piece of info to have. Thank you sir!

JDJ -

Using Iscar TAGN2JT IC808 cutoff (.083 wide). Leaves nice surface finish on both sides (no 2nd op facing needed), ~.0005 flatness too. Tool squeaks a bit, but machine doesnt chatter. Lasts about 600pcs.

I cannot speak to the ST model...at least not untill next week when I'll have one of those running.

But to the SL-10 and SL-20 I can speak.

Machines are Linear way and rigidity is not near my Emco Maier or friends Mazaks and Okuma's, not quite up to par with a Daewoo...but then neither is the price tag. I run mostly 303 and 316SS, lots of 1-1/4" 316L Hex in my SL-10 and you know when its taking the hex down...oh boy do you know that...but it has been taking those cuts for a couple years and not complained...parts come out great and my customer has been very pleased. SL-20 is beefier...but still a Haas

All in all they lack rigidity and HP. Add an extra pass here and there, maybe back off the feed a little, especially on the larger end of the part spectrum and trying to push larger Indexable drills taxes the machines somewhat... but I have to say I have been pleased, guess that is why I have another one coming in this week. For me...it is all about just getting the job done in a reasonable amount of time and not so much about getting it done ASAP.

Sim,
I believe you will be pleasantly surprised with the ST over your SL. At least I was. And wish I could replace the 2 SL units I have with ST units.

Curtis

We have a ST-30 due to hit the floor on the 18th of this month,they have made big changes in the machine compaired to the SL-30 I have been running for 11 years now.One key feature is the way the tail stock is mounted in the machine,on the SL the center of the tail stock is like 2' from the ways,threading or taking a heavy cut has always been an issue because of that.Even the HAAS guy said it wasn't their best idea and was a POS compaired to the ST which has a way system much like a manual were the ways are right under the tail stock.
I watched some vids of the ST version on youtube..no way our 1999 model can compete with it.

Don't get me wrong,the SL-30 has been running great for 13 years now and still hold tenths tolerance once warmed and tuned in.It's not a workhorse like some of the heavy weights,but in our job shop it holds it's on and makes profite.I can't wait till we get the ST,I am hopeing it will be even faster due to being able to make deeper roughing cuts and thread and faster surface speeds.

curtis r said:

Sim,
I believe you will be pleasantly surprised with the ST over your SL. At least I was. And wish I could replace the 2 SL units I have with ST units.

Curtis

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I hope so...I really hope so. I shouldn't complain as I have been very happy with my 1st SL-10 and the 2nd SL-20...but my last SL-10 was almost the last Haas Turning Center for me. Closest thing to a lemon I ever bought...mostly crappy little bugs that got under my skin including a bunch of short cuts from the 1st machines were taken...like forgetting to tighten bolts and connecting hosing, lousy silicone jobs in place of gaskets. Took over a year to get it all straightened out...but now she's been pretty good.

I looked at other brands...I see what my guys are comfortable with, what I am comfortable with. Went to look at machine. Ran the numbers over and over again...then once again the deciding factor came when I had two machines go down. Haas came, fixed and left before the other Machine Tool manufacturer scheduled a Service Call.

So you say I should be pleasantly surprised...thanks for that input. I look forward to it being up and running by Monday, already have jobs lined up.

This may be a minor thing, but I have noticed that it is easier to clean chips out of the ST than the SL. One thing that I do have to gripe about though is the spindle liner has a threaded collar on the end of it that sticks out past the sheet metal and slings coolant on the floor. We do a lot of bar feed work on the ST-20 using a Servo Bar-300. Now the bar feeder left a little to be desired on the set up when we got it, but now works great. I will say look everything over really good. I was told they were using quite a bit of temp labor and some things were getting overlooked. My machine came without rigid tapping turned on, no hydraulic fluid, and some of the threaded holes in the turret that bolt the tool clamp on had issues. One a 1/4-20 no go would screw in and wallow around, and one was drilled and tapped at an angle so you couldn't even get the screw started through the clamp. I made them change the turret, which on the new machine takes all of 30 minutes, and haven't had a single problem since.

I guess I should have prefaced my earlier reply with the issues mine had when it hit the floor, but from what I have been told by my HFO rep, HAAS is supposed to have corrected their QC problems. I'm actually friends with him and he is pretty straight up about stuff with me.

Curtis

Really...thought that would be a big OSHA no no to have rotating anything sticking out. If using a Barfeed I guess it is safe, but if like me you Bar Pull that Spinning Sleeve is a possibility for a problem. I have the new Style Plastic Spindle liner on my SL-10 and it goes right up the the edge of sheetmetal with the nut on...but can slide the cover closed without a problem. Wonder if maybe the install is wrong.

The SL-10 with Tailstock is a real ball buster to clean enclosure well. Not so bad without tailstock. Talk about hard time cleaning...the coolant tank is a major pain...wish they changed that design so you can get in and really clean. Luckily my coolant just lasts and lasts in that machine. Should be nice with conveyor...although only had issues when running 316SS....those chips just do not like going thru the Auger.

I hope Haas corrected their QC. Last two purchases had some issues...Rotary unit ran first job fine, then on second the Spindle O-Ring locked the unit up...had to get a loaner from HFO to get job out. The SL-10 came in and leaked like a bastard, loose auger motor, Silicone job missed the mating parts, Had a couple air hose connections let loose, Parts Catcher fell apart...loose bolts, hydraulic valve went bad, Hydraulic Union blew a seal, Union failed programming glitches...all pain in the rump stuff that got fixed...but more aggravation then it needed to be.

If it wasn't for my HFO (Allendale) I am fairly certain I'd have another brand of machine on my floor. Not sure if that is a good thing or not...hope I'm not just sticking with what I am comfy with.

Thank you guys, very much, for all the info. It should be helpful in the future.

SIM said:

All in all they lack rigidity and HP. Add an extra pass here and there, maybe back off the feed a little, especially on the larger end of the part spectrum and trying to push larger Indexable drills taxes the machines somewhat... but I have to say I have been pleased, guess that is why I have another one coming in this week. For me...it is all about just getting the job done in a reasonable amount of time and not so much about getting it done ASAP.

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I operate on the similar ideas. Extra pass, not a problem. I got plenty of other machines to set up, program and run while that one is cutting! Reliability of the process is paramount, not really cycle time.

I machine a lot of 316 and cast iron. A fair bit of interrupted cuts in the mix.

SIM said:

Really...thought that would be a big OSHA no no to have rotating anything sticking out. If using a Barfeed I guess it is safe, but if like me you Bar Pull that Spinning Sleeve is a possibility for a problem. I have the new Style Plastic Spindle liner on my SL-10 and it goes right up the the edge of sheetmetal with the nut on...but can slide the cover closed without a problem. Wonder if maybe the install is wrong.

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Here is a pic of what I'm talking about. I need to make a cover that has a hole for the stock but sits back far enough to clear the nut. Maybe in the spare time I dream about.

Now I see what you mean.

My Liner Adapter sticks out even further on this ST-10


My SL-10's have a sheet metal cover that fully encapsulates the Spindle and Liner Adapter.


Semi Good news, in the Liner adapter Kit was a cover that appears to go over liner adapter and would protect those not familiar with spinning objects protruding from running lathes. The down side...nothing to mount the cover to. No instruction supplied and the Tech had little luck asking the HFO and Factory for instructions. Tech will hopefully get answers today to finish the install.

I'll let you know.

Yeah, I have an SL10 also and no issues. That sticks way out on your ST10. Hope it doesn't produce the same mess I deal with. I do like the single piece Delrin liners instead of the steel and puck arrangement I use on my 10. I have one of the few pneumatic bar feeders that HAAS produced and do a ton of bar feed work on my SL10.

Curtis

I have a feeling they are going to get this squared away pretty quickly.
That cover in the 2nd picture should do the trick...provided they have a way to secure.


I wasn't even thinking about the mess...but your right coolant will sling out that tube creating one hell of a mess. Guess that why you have the diapers on the floor.

Right now my issue is safety. The end of the machine is right on an aisle, I cannot have that tube spinning in such close proximity to someone walking by. I'd put something around to barricade the end of machine...but if I do I can guarantee that is the one thing that gets put away leaving the tube exposed


We looked at the pneumatic feeder...seemed like it would have worked just fine and pricing was in line. We decided to hold out for the Servo Bar feed unit...but got used to Bar Pulling 48" pieces. Only recently did I pick up servo unit...still not quite hooked up, but getting close.

The pneumatic if I recall was able to handle 12' Bars, that would be a major advantage...long as you can spin them at speed. Not sure what the deciding factor was on not getting one of those.

The pneumatic is 12' long but only pushes 6' bars. The pusher inside is roughly 6'. You still have less drop by cutting 2-6' pcs than 3-4' pcs. I have the bar 300, in the pic, really nice loading 10 or 12 bars and just checking the catcher tray occasionally. Even if losing more drop annoys the crap out of me. Trading time for drop works out in the end though.

JDJ, sorry for hi-jacking your thread.

Curtis

curtis r said:

JDJ, sorry for hi-jacking your thread.

Curtis

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Not a problem whatsoever. I don't and (most likely won't) be needing a bar-feed system, but it doesn't hurt anything to hear about them.