HA5C moves 348deg on a 360 deg move...any thoughts

SIM · Aug 8, 2012

New-ish HA5C Indexer moves 348deg when programmed to go 360deg.
Forward or reverse moves give exact same results

A 720deg move is about 24 deg short and incrementally gets worse.

All moves, forward or reverse will go exactly back to zero.

I say newish as the second time I used Indexer the Spindle Locked up and was returned to Haas for service, I believe the Spindle O-Ring that screwed up binding spindle.
This may be the third time I am using...but possibly the first time since serviced....so newish, but serviced.

Called HFO, checked Parameters, modified a few and nothing. HFO called Factory, they needed some time....

My issue, I have job I need to get done...a loaner not available, my other Rotary Table is in the midst of a job...did I mention I have a job in machine that I need to get done. While I am sure Haas will get it figured out...I am hoping we are missing something obvious...maybe a setting. I/We went thru all that came to mind and a few off the wall ideas...but didn't make a difference.

I considered modifying program to comp the 12 degs...but at several thousand lines of code...it would be a nightmare.

My ears are open to any thoughts or suggestions.

Thanks

haastec · Aug 8, 2012

You could take the cover off and check for anything that may be loose or slipping such as a belt, pulley, or motor coupling, etc.

mhh · Aug 8, 2012

Just putting something out there.... Are you sure didnt get converted to that awful 400deg system when it was serviced? I really doubt that it could be the problem as you have used it before, but i have tried using a digital protractor that used the 400deg system... What a headache.

SIM · Aug 8, 2012

mhh said:
Just putting something out there.... Are you sure didnt get converted to that awful 400deg system when it was serviced? I really doubt that it could be the problem as you have used it before, but i have tried using a digital protractor that used the 400deg system... What a headache.

I am not on the floor like I used to be...it is unclear if we used this Indexer since it was serviced.

If we did it was for a different job and may not have been noticed if index was off. Unit may have been converted...or parts swapped...but if only O-Ring Jammed Spindle as i was told...not sure why anything else would be changed.

Thanks

SIM · Aug 8, 2012

haastec said:
You could take the cover off and check for anything that may be loose or slipping such as a belt, pulley, or motor coupling, etc.

If something was slipping...why would it incrementally get worse with each rotation and the kicker...it still goes back to its home position.

I machined and indicated a flat.
Programmed a 360deg rotation and it falls short of 360 deg.

I need to rotate an additional 12 degrees for flat to indicate true again.

If I then home back to Zero...I can indicate flat and it is dead on.

I'll check for slippage any-hoo

Thanks

haastec · Aug 8, 2012

Yea, I though about that after I posted also.

The only thing I can think of that would cause a problem like you describe would be either parameters or something to do with the timing, such as a the wrong pulley or belt (either one with the wrong number of teeth). Unless they were damaged, I doubt that they would have gotten changed during repair but not out of the question.

I would still be inclined to suspect parameters. Instead of the HFO, you may try Oxnard and have them send you a complete list of parameters for your rotary and check them again.

Good luck!

mjk · Aug 8, 2012

do you have another machine to check it on?

since I've never had a 4th this may be a stupid question
Are there absolute and incremental moves with an indexer?

Mike

tc1999 · Aug 8, 2012

mjk said:
do you have another machine to check it on?

since I've never had a 4th this may be a stupid question
Are there absolute and incremental moves with an indexer?

Mike

Not a bad suggestion. Have you tried to manually rotate 360 degrees? The fact that it goes back to zero isn't strange if you are actually homing the rotary table - since there is a stop switch for that.

(MJK - yes, there can be absolute and incremental moves with every axis.)

the drive screw on those rotary's are SUPER weak (they are technically "indexers" I believe and not meant to do much if any actual rotating while cutting). It wouldn't surprise me if it was worn out. They are easy to maintain (or replace)...

SIM · Aug 8, 2012

haastec said:
Yea, I though about that after I posted also.

The only thing I can think of that would cause a problem like you describe would be either parameters or something to do with the timing, such as a the wrong pulley or belt (either one with the wrong number of teeth). Unless they were damaged, I doubt that they would have gotten changed during repair but not out of the question.

I cannot say what was done in Oxnard, cannot find RA number as we are moving offices...Oxnard is of little help till we find the RA number.

Parameters are from Oxnard, HFO just had me tweak a few here and there with no beneficial results.
I would still be inclined to suspect parameters. Instead of the HFO, you may try Oxnard and have them send you a complete list of parameters for your rotary and check them again.

Good luck!

To get me going my HFO changed the Ratio (steps/unit) parameter, got close then I tweaked till I achieved pretty darn close to 360 deg with an indicator across the flats...within a thousandth. I'll be able to use this to get job out, later we can ship where ever it needs to go for proper fixing.

Thanks

SIM · Aug 8, 2012

tc1999 said:
Not a bad suggestion. Have you tried to manually rotate 360 degrees? The fact that it goes back to zero isn't strange if you are actually homing the rotary table - since there is a stop switch for that.

(MJK - yes, there can be absolute and incremental moves with every axis.)

Brushless Rotary on a Brushed Machine...not a simple Plug and Play, have to rewire a separate harness...otherwise I would have swapped to another machine.

Separate home switch...that could have answered homing...but not the fact each rotation was short the same amount...in both directions...position was a steady rate to zero too...didn't jump to zero as I would expect if it hit the switch. I could be wrong.

Overriding the correct parameters for now...running. I'll send in for warranted repair after, let them sort it out.

Thanks

tc1999 · Aug 8, 2012

SIM said:
Brushless Rotary on a Brushed Machine...not a simple Plug and Play, have to rewire a separate harness...otherwise I would have swapped to another machine.

Separate home switch...that could have answered homing...but not the fact each rotation was short the same amount...in both directions...position was a steady rate to zero too...didn't jump to zero as I would expect if it hit the switch. I could be wrong.

Overriding the correct parameters for now...running. I'll send in for warranted repair after, let them sort it out.

Thanks

Actually by manual I meant with the jog wheel...and watching the DRO as you go. Not much help but thought it may be interesting to know if it was actually moving some slightly smaller amount each click of the jog wheel.

dinosaur · Aug 8, 2012

I would check the thrust bearings for the worm. If they are O.K, then I would check the parameter for grid shift. I am not familiar with Haas but I would do the same no matter what make of machine.

Ox · Aug 8, 2012

Skipped many of the replies here, but:

Had this on our retrofit machine.
B axis pulled up a few * long of programmed....
The pulse count/degree was set to 1000 instead of 1024. (I think those are the right numbers)

Of course a wrong count will always come home, and will always be the same amount off / rev in any direction.

-----------

I am Ox and I approve this h'yah post!

SIM · Aug 9, 2012

dinosaur said:
I would check the thrust bearings for the worm. If they are O.K, then I would check the parameter for grid shift. I am not familiar with Haas but I would do the same no matter what make of machine.

I think Thrust bearing play would be a consideration if it lacked a few degrees of motion in one direction and then stayed constant after, it would still then come up short on the return, no??. I have a cumulative error. One rotation-12 degrees off, two rotations-24 degrees off, three rotations-36 degrees less, etc.

Played with Grid Shift...not sure what it does. But changed with zero noticeable difference till we reach a "Margin Error Too Large" alarm...then put back to original parameter.

SIM · Aug 9, 2012

Ox said:
Skipped many of the replies here, but:

Had this on our retrofit machine.
B axis pulled up a few * long of programmed....
The pulse count/degree was set to 1000 instead of 1024. (I think those are the right numbers)

Of course a wrong count will always come home, and will always be the same amount off / rev in any direction.

-----------

I am Ox and I approve this h'yah post!

I didn't notice anything that said pulse count...could be it. I'll look shortly.

Or...maybe Haas uses the Ratio (Step/unit) parameter for that pulse count...as this is how we worked around it for now.

It is working...but told it cannot be right as those numbers should be solid...whatever...let them figure it out when I am done...still under warrantee.

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