Another annoying BP oil cup question... One BP drains FAST, one slow

TheOldCar · Feb 14, 2016

I am finally starting to use my "NOS" Bridgeport. It was made in 1968, and I purchased it at an estate auction thinking it was restored. It just has very little use.

My worry is how quickly the oil runs out of the larger headstock oil cup; the one that has the wick. I only fret because If I fill the cup it is empty the next day, leaving a large puddle all over the vise. My only comparison is my other BP, a 1960 that is identical except for being well worn. The large oil cup on it hardly drains down, always showing oil inside.

I have searched and searched the archives, but find myself becoming more confused. :crazy:

Now I'm thinking maybe my worn machine should be draining the Velocite #10 faster than it has been. I have had the headstock apart before, and I remember thinking the little tubing and wick looked fine then.

I know these are total loss systems. I just want to make sure I'm doing this right.

JRIowa · Feb 14, 2016

1. What kind of oil are you using?

2. That's how the vise get's oiled.
3. If you don't have a vise on the table, that how you keep the table from ruting
4. There had better be oil sitting on the base of the machine, or you aren't pumping the oiler enough.
JR

jhruska · Feb 14, 2016

Make a filter plug that fits the inside diameter of the cup, felt or some such. The oil will be filtered. Over time it will clog and slow down. Set a container under the spindle. JoAnn's and Michaels are names of craft stores or visit a fabric shop and ask for scraps.
John

TheOldCar · Feb 14, 2016

I don't have a bijur/pump system, just zerks...but I don't think that applies to the oil cups on the headstock...?? I'm just wondering if my "new" BP leaks too fast, or if my old BP is not leaking enough.

As the OP says, I use Velocite #10 on the head.

After more searching, I'm thinking I need to clean the old BP's wick and get it to allow more oil to drip.

Vladymere gr · Feb 14, 2016

The old BP is not leaking enough.

Vlad

TheOldCar · Feb 14, 2016

Awesome answers. I need to fix the slow flow in my old machine, and be glad my newer one leaks! I'll look into slowing the flow on the newer one only if I ever discover it is actually too fast. Thanks again!

jhruska · Feb 15, 2016

The 'wick' that was used is like a pipe cleaner but with thicker/denser material. It will catch heavy solids and debris and slow the oil flow. The oil loss should not be so much that it is slinging oil as it runs.
John

JRIowa · Feb 15, 2016

TheOldCar said:
As the OP says, I use Velocite #10 on the head.

Sorry, I missed that.

IMO, Velocite 10 is too thin for the quill unless you're doing mostly high speed work. I use ISO AW-32 in mine. BP is very vague on the specs.

The front oil cup will drain overnight and the side will take about 3 days to require filling. The BP manuals say to oil daily. I don't think the wick is dirty.

For the oil zerks on the ways, the same thing applies as a one-shot. If you do not have oil dripping onto you machine base, you are not oiling enough. If you do have oil on the base and it is very dirty, you are not oiling enough.

Oil is cheap compared to the cost of a machine. It always amazes me the things people will use to try and save a $. You need 3 lubes for a BP. All 3 are probably $50 and will last you 5 years in the average small shop.
JR

Clarification: Oldcar, I'm not saying the you're doing something wrong, I'm just used to the idiot that will follow me saying: "I've used chainsaw bar oil for 125 years without a problem".

TheOldCar · Feb 15, 2016

I have some AW-32 that I use in my little Monarch; I'll use that for the quill. Thanks!

DMF_TomB · Feb 15, 2016

TheOldCar said:
I am finally starting to use my "NOS" Bridgeport. It was made in 1968, and I purchased it at an estate auction thinking it was restored. It just has very little use.

My worry is how quickly the oil runs out of the larger headstock oil cup; the one that has the wick. I only fret because If I fill the cup it is empty the next day, leaving a large puddle all over the vise. My only comparison is my other BP, a 1960 that is identical except for being well worn. The large oil cup on it hardly drains down, always showing oil inside.

I have searched and searched the archives, but find myself becoming more confused. Now I'm thinking maybe my worn machine should be draining the Velocite #10 faster than it has been. I have had the headstock apart before, and I remember thinking the little tubing and wick looked fine then.

I know these are total loss systems. I just want to make sure I'm doing this right.

.
i had bridgeport with hand pump oiler and i had to remove table to replace bent way covers. when table was off i saw plastic oil lines going to ball screw nut the plastic tubing was broke. the plastic tubing got brittle with age and just broke from vibration. so i was pumping oil every day and seeing oil coming out but it was not getting at all spots like it was suppose too. oil coming out too fast i would wonder why. sometimes thickness of oil needs change. i have had spring loaded oiler not pump oil cause oil used was too thick

Vladymere gr · Feb 18, 2016

I'm going to change my answer from "The old BP is not leaking enough." to the old BP may not be leaking enough.

If the old BP has open spindle bearings, as it would have come from the factory, then it is not leaking enough but if sealed bearings had been installed some time in it's life then the leakage rate will be slower and the spindle should not need to be lubricated daily.

Vlad

TheOldCar · Feb 20, 2016

Thanks, I should take the head apart again and notice if the bearings are sealed.

One thing that surprised me was the oil cup venting issue... The NOS BP has a small, apparently punched hole right in the center of the cup lid, but my worn out BP doesn't. After lots of curiosity I removed both oil cups and fully cleaned the old one (NOS one is spotless inside, including wick). I then added a new pipe cleaner wick to the old cup and tube, and began comparing drip rate of both. The old, now cleaned-and-clear one dripped only a bit, then stopped. But after propping the lid open with a bit of sheet metal, it began to drain at almost the same rate as the "new" one.

Were these oil cups always supplied with a vent in the lid?

jhruska · Feb 20, 2016

TheOldCar said:
Thanks, I should take the head apart again and notice if the bearings are sealed.

Were these oil cups always supplied with a vent in the lid?

No, absolutely not. Some bright boy stuck a hole in it.

Sealed bearings in the head? Not from Bridgeport and not worth the time to tear it down unless there is some other real problem.

John

abarnsley · Feb 20, 2016

Sealed greased for life bearings were a factory option...

Plenty of places that used BP's, did not want oil on the table or work.

Wood work, etc.

So they would not be common, but were certainly out there.

TheOldCar · Feb 21, 2016

Next experiment I tried:

"New" BP: Taped the little vent hole shut, filled cup to max. Checked 11 hours later, still full.

On the old BP: Carefully cleaned the mating surfaces of the lid and cup and filled cup just below the rim, making no oil film sealing the cup and lid. Then actually USED the BP for 1 hour. Oil started dripping onto the table every 10 seconds, draining fast like the other BP does with that vent pinhole.

Fast drip is better than no drip, for sure! But it doesn't take 3 days...more like 2 hours. That seems quite quick.

jhruska · Feb 21, 2016

abarnsley said:
Sealed greased for life bearings were a factory option...

Plenty of places that used BP's, did not want oil on the table or work.

Wood work, etc.

So they would not be common, but were certainly out there.

Did a rebuild on a 'wood work' Bridgeport. The tip-off is the hi rpm motor. The bearings in that head were not sealed. I have reassembled heads after packing the bearings with grease. Kluber or Mobile red synthetic. The quill should take a light wt.oil but oiling the spindle will flush out the grease.

TheOldCar, just add oil occasionally. The 'oil daily' is really for those machine running eight hours a shift. Then the slinger throws the oil back into the bore so there is no mess while operating. If it is dripping while the spindle turns there is too much oil added.
John

TheOldCar · Feb 21, 2016

jhruska said:
Did a rebuild on a 'wood work' Bridgeport. The tip-off is the hi rpm motor. The bearings in that head were not sealed. I have reassembled heads after packing the bearings with grease. Kluber or Mobile red synthetic. The quill should take a light wt.oil but oiling the spindle will flush out the grease.

TheOldCar, just add oil occasionally. The 'oil daily' is really for those machine running eight hours a shift. Then the slinger throws the oil back into the bore so there is no mess while operating. If it is dripping while the spindle turns there is too much oil added.
John

Thanks man!

henrylr · Jan 15, 2018

Hi all,

I have a 1952 J head Bridgeport I bought about 20 years ago. I have a question about the spindle oil cup and related components. They are listed in the parts section of the manual as item numbers 55, 54, 53 and 52. Question is, could item 52, the wick, be missing in my machine? I ask because when I add oil in the cup it runs down to spindle bearings very quickly and I can't see any part of a wick in the oil cup. Is there a way to determine if there is a wick, without taking the head apart? If it is missing, can a wick be inserted through the Gits cup without removal? If so, how long is the wick supposed to be? Does anyone know of a photo showing the cup, tube, plug and wick installed in place? Also, in the Hardinge Bridgeport Series 1 manual item 52, the wick, is listed as a .125 O.D. common pipe cleaner, but nothing about length.

Thanks,
henrylr

awake · Jan 16, 2018

Are you all using the same oil in each of the cups? On my BP, it calls for a lighter oil in the side cup (spindle) and a medium oil in the front cup (quill? I think). I use 32 and 68 respectively. Correct? Incorrect? FWIW, the spindle cup drains down over time; the quill rarely needs additional oil - but then I only use the machine occasionally, and rarely use the quill.

On edit: Oh, crap - I responded to a necro post. Why have there been so many of these lately?? At least this one was only a couple of years old - better than some of the 5 and 8 and 10-year old posts that have been revived lately ...

Henrylr - much better to start a new thread than to revive one that has been dormant for over a year. If you need to, you can always link to the old one. But few things are as frustrating as reading down through a thread, only to discover that most of it is years out of date!

henrylr · Jan 16, 2018

Thanks for the reply. I did start a new thread, for the reason you mentioned. Also,in the Bridgeport series 1 J head lubrication section, it shows the, higher up, front cup to be for the spindle bearing and quill feed and the side cup for the quill bearings.

Another annoying BP oil cup question... One BP drains FAST, one slow

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