Best way to tram in ram/turret?

Sendit · Oct 19, 2016

Best way to indicate ram to table?

Putting the ram and turret back together and then on the base at some point this weekend. How do you go about making sure the turret/ram assemble are parallel to the table?

Tramming the head is no problem for me.

I'm setting up the turret (as I have removed it). Getting it (the ram) perpendicular to the table.

Ideally how far forward should the ram be to from center of the spindle to the front face of the turret?

rons · Oct 19, 2016

This is a DIY example from this website. You can buy one too.

Your situation presents an example, you could have built something like this before tearing down the machine.

A single indicator method:

http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/mindworks/Machine_Shop/Manual_Mill/Tram a Mill Head pdf.pdf

Rock6.3 · Oct 19, 2016

Sendit said:
Putting the ram and turret back together at some point this weekend. How do you go about making sure the turret and ram are perpendicular to the table?

Ideally how far forward should the ram be to from center of the spindle to the front face of the turret?

Ram position: Put your vise on the table, position the ram where it can place the collet over your work.

Tramming:
BRIDGEPORT MILL Tramming or Indicating the Head to Zero - YouTube

Tom's two cents on vise tramming - YouTube

Sendit · Oct 19, 2016

Tramming the head is no problem.

I'm setting up the turret (as I have removed it). Getting it (the ram) perpendicular to the table.

Only way I could think was place a indicator on the head and indicate off a parallel. Then move the ram back and forth across the parallel (front to back) until I got zero run out

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rons · Oct 19, 2016

My mistake about the tramming.

Do you mean getting the ram parallel to the the top of the table? Are you trying to find a "sweet zone" of movement for the ram which shows no deflection on your indicator?

Moving the ram back and forth doesn't accomplish much. Rock is about right, if you do a lot of work with a vise then position the table so the head is directly over the vise jaws.

jccaclimber · Oct 19, 2016

I've never bothered to tram in the ram, it is where it is and on the rare annual situation that I move it I just indicate back in at the new location. If it were me, I would square a block to the table first. Indicator in the collet, move the x or y until square, sort of like indicating a vise. I would then move the ram and aim for the same.

Thinking about this a bit more, I would first make sure that when moving the ram forwards/backwards and bolting it back down that it is actually ending up in the same place. It may well do so, but I've never tried. I'm not sure how much the head will nod/droop with full vs. no ram extension as well.

If you have a gage pin you could orient it vertically, move the table all the way back, find the high point moving it across an indicator in the quill, then repeat at some new location near full forward. It would only be two points and wouldn't quite get the full distance, but would be better than I've ever tried to achieve on the ram.

Heavey Metal · Oct 19, 2016

You want it tramed to the y travel.

Mark a spot on a part in the vise

Indicate it

DMF_TomB · Oct 19, 2016

Sendit said:
Putting the ram and turret back together at some point this weekend. How do you go about making sure the turret/ram assemble are perpendicular to the table?

Tramming the head is no problem.

I'm setting up the turret (as I have removed it). Getting it (the ram) perpendicular to the table.

Only way I could think was place a indicator on the head and indicate off a parallel. Then move the ram back and forth across the parallel (front to back) until I got zero run out

Ideally how far forward should the ram be to from center of the spindle to the front face of the turret?

.
magnetic base a and indicator on table move Y direction. measuring bottom of ram but do not be surprised if bends or sags more the more it sticks out. so you cannot get perfect for when ram all the way in and all the way out. best you can do is the middle of ram extension travel

JRIowa · Oct 19, 2016

Don't need anything special. That's in Indicol holder with an InteRapid 312B indicator. Had them both for years. The ring is a bearing race for an ammonia compressor. Which I've also had for years. Checked the ring a few years ago on our CMM and it was flat and parallel withing 0.000050"

You'll never get them perfect because a BP isn't perfect. Tram where you're going to me using it. That means table position, knee elevation, EVERYTHING. I usually get to less than 0.001" and call it good.
JR

Sendit · Oct 19, 2016

DMF_TomB said:
.
magnetic base a and indicator on table move Y direction. measuring bottom of ram but do not be surprised if bends or sags more the more it sticks out. so you cannot get perfect for when ram all the way in and all the way out. best you can do is the middle of ram extension travel

Measuring the bottom doesn't tell you if the ram is parallel to travel, right? one would have to measure the side of the dove tail. If turret is turn to far to the right (if looking at the machine) then the indicator would grow in measurement as the table came toward the operator. Correct?

DMF_TomB · Oct 19, 2016

Sendit said:
Measuring the bottom doesn't tell you if the ram is parallel to travel, right? one would have to measure the side of the dove tail. If turret is turn to far to the right (if looking at the machine) then the indicator would grow in measurement as the table came toward the operator. Correct?

.
i never saw a need to have Ram perpendicular to X and parallel to Y

Derek Smalls · Oct 19, 2016

DMF_TomB said:
.
i never saw a need to have Ram perpendicular to X and parallel to Y

Only time I worry about it is when tilting the head over to mill an angle or drill at an angle. It does make a difference in those cases, other wise, set it to what looks straight to you and get on with your day. How to do it if you need to, the method you outlined in your OP will work fine. As far as how far out the ram should be extended, the only real answer is, as little as possible. In a more practical sense, having it out so the spindle is just shy of the mid point of y travel is probably suitable for most jobs, and yet not so far out that a huge amount of rigidity is lost. Need maximum rigidity, slide it in all the way, need to extend it for reach on a special job, well you get the picture. It's a BP, idea is versatility, not super precision or rigidity!
Always a good idea to check tram periodically, especially after moving the ram or turret or before a beginning fussy job.

Sendit · Oct 19, 2016

DMF_TomB said:
.
i never saw a need to have Ram perpendicular to X and parallel to Y

I just need to do it one time to make a witness mark in case I ever have to turn the head or drill like Derek said. Regarding my reply to your comment in post 10, is that correct thinking. Have to indicate on the side of the dovetail ram, as the bottom surface wouldn't tell you if you are out of alignment or not in relation to the y axis?

moonlight machine · Oct 19, 2016

DMF_TomB said:
.
i never saw a need to have Ram perpendicular to X and parallel to Y

You need it parallel to the Y axis if the part you are making is to big for the available Y travel. I made a dash bulkhead for a '83 March Indycar years ago. About 20 x 22 as I recall. I squared the ram by putting a 12" wide angle plate on the table, True this to the Y axis with an indicator in the quill, run the Y axis in and out and square the angle plate. Then run the ram in and out and rotate the ram till it is parallel to the Y axis. I bolted a 8" digital caliper to the ram so I would know exactly how far I moved it.

Richard King · Oct 19, 2016

moonlight machine said:
You need it parallel to the Y axis if the part you are making is to big for the available Y travel. I made a dash bulkhead for a '83 March Indycar years ago. About 20 x 22 as I recall. I squared the ram by putting a 12" wide angle plate on the table, True this to the Y axis with an indicator in the quill, run the Y axis in and out and square the angle plate. Then run the ram in and out and rotate the ram till it is parallel to the Y axis. I bolted a 8" digital caliper to the ram so I would know exactly how far I moved it.

I have never trammed this other then put it on the rough arrow on ram saddle and column base. If I would do it I would do it Moons way or use a clamped parallel on table trammed in and out or the Y axis. Then move the ram in and out. If it was .002 to .005" in 12" would be close enough. That is not a precision alignment test.

waggie · Nov 18, 2016

I'm making something that I can only machine half (or 3/4 of) then need to extend the ram in order to finish the rest. In order to do this accurately I needed to tram in the turret. As in, making sure that when I extend the ram, it's coming out parallel to the Y axis. Thankfully, my project doesn't call for extreme accuracy (+/- 0.01). Here's my procedure.

1. Chuck a broken endmill in the vise, so that it's vertical.

2. Put a dial test indicator (DTI) into the R8 collet.

3. lock the spindle brake (i used a zip tie)

4. Zero DTI to to the end mill's "highest point" while moving Y axis.

5. lock knee, lock X, recheck zero, and zero DRO

6. move Y to out (i moved Y to -5.000)

7. unlock ram and move ram out about 5 inches.

8. lock ram.

9. move the Y axis and see how much you're off.

10. unbolt the turret, adjust back half of the value from step 9.

11. bolt down the turret and recheck you really adjusted half.

12. repeat step 4 through 11 til you get zero on both

clear as mud? Someone should make a video about this.

Davis In SC · Nov 18, 2016

Only time ram needs to be perfectly square to table is if you are using a horizontal attachment.

DMF_TomB · Nov 19, 2016

Sendit said:
Measuring the bottom doesn't tell you if the ram is parallel to travel, right? one would have to measure the side of the dove tail. If turret is turn to far to the right (if looking at the machine) then the indicator would grow in measurement as the table came toward the operator. Correct?

.
.
of course i meant indicate bottom side of ram as thats where machined dovetail is. you could clamp a square to table and indicator on ram measure the square as you extend out. but easier to put indicator on table and measure bottom side of dovetail so no square needed
.
it would not surprise me if ram dovetail travel is not perfect straight line but slightly curved. depends on tolerances if looking for .005" probably no problem if looking for .001" i would check if unlocking ram extension clamps and retightening if it even repeats within .001. a lot of things when loosened and retighten do not repeat especially if torque on bolts is not the same. that is you might get a change in position if you tighten ran extension clamp bolts tighter

paramedico987 · Feb 6, 2017

It's not necessary, so that's why you don't see much about it.

If you really want to, though...
Mount an indicator to the table and run it against the ram dovetail as you crank the Y-axis back and forth. Adjust the turret as needed until it runs true.

Best way to tram in ram/turret?

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