Ever seen a Hardinge HLV-H with serious paint cracking ?

Milacron · Jun 28, 2017

Ever seen a Hardinge HLV-H with serious paint cracking ? (photos)

I've seen many machines with cracking paint in my day but don't recall ever seeing a Hardinge with the problem. The amazing thing in the below example is this is an HLV-DR... one of the final generation EM models. Machine was in a metal building but it had insulation and heat, so much have mostly happened in just the last year or two when the company went out of business with no climate control....but still, never seen the problem this bad. Location was Laurens, SC... not far from Greenville.

Otherwise the machine was pretty clean and in good condition...just amazed how bad the paint was on the headstock and tailstock.

D Dubeau · Jun 28, 2017

WOW. Most all I've seen wear more like a hard gobstopper. That one is more like a hardboiled egg.

Milacron · Jun 28, 2017

D Dubeau said:
WOW. Most all I've seen wear more like a hard gobstopper. That one is more like a hardboiled egg.

Cracked boiled egg shell...yeah, that's a good way to describe it. And there's no way to fix that sort of thing but to take it all dowe to the primer or fill and start over. Never seen this on an ancient Hardinge must less one made in the late 1980's. Wonder if they had a bad batch of paint....hopefully they found out it was bad paint within a month or two or there could be hundreds out there waiting for this to happen.

Peter from Holland · Jun 28, 2017

Not the paint is cracking but its the filler that cracks

Peter

L Vanice · Jun 28, 2017

I have a 1980-85 Hardinge HSL with some of that cracking. Other than that, my machines seem to have lost original paint only where struck with a tool or something.

I have found that a pneumatic needle scaler does a good job of removing thick brittle paint from as-cast surfaces if you plan to refinish it. Scalers are not for use on machined surfaces or sheet metal.

Larry

Milacron · Jun 28, 2017

FWIW, this was in an online auction that happened this morning. Thanks goodness I went to the inspection yesterday as I couldn't tell from the auctioneers photos the headstock looked anywhere near this bad....something looked "odd" in the photos but I would never have expected this. Also I didn't notice in the photos that it had a threaded nose spindle.....not a deal breaker but lowers it's value some.

I knew it had no tooling with it, but the tooling was a complete mess in separate lots...mostly jumbled up with tooling for an HC chucker and two DSM 59's just plopped willy nilly on a card table where anything could be easily stolen. The rest of it in a proper Vidmar cabinet but still hit 'n miss. Funny part is I noticed the winner bidder on the lathe got NONE of the tooling lots....so he's in for some shocks in that department.

Milacron · Jun 28, 2017

Peter from Holland said:
Not the paint is cracking but its the filler that cracks

Peter

OK, change bad "paint" to bad "filler"...makes sense.

D Dubeau · Jun 28, 2017

Milacron said:
FWIW, this was in an online auction that happened this morning. Thanks goodness I went to the inspection yesterday as I couldn't tell from the auctioneers photos the headstock looked anywhere near this bad....something looked "odd" in the photos but I would never have expected this. Also I didn't notice in the photos that it had a threaded nose spindle.....not a deal breaker but lowers it's value some.

I knew it had no tooling with it, but the tooling was a complete mess in separate lots...mostly jumbled up with tooling for an HC chucker and two DSM 59's just plopped willy nilly on a card table where anything could be easily stolen. The rest of it in a proper Vidmar cabinet but still hit 'n miss. Funny part is I noticed the winner bidder on the lathe got NONE of the tooling lots....so he's in for some shocks in that department.

My biggest auction pet peeve is selling all the machine specific tooling separate from the tool it goes with. Even worse is when they sell the tooling first.

sable · Jun 28, 2017

D Dubeau said:
My biggest auction pet peeve is selling all the machine specific tooling separate from the tool it goes with. Even worse is when they sell the tooling first.

I went to an auction where there were two SIP Jig borers ,a 1H and 4 I think it was ,the extensive tooling for both machines was sold first on a pallet then the two machines separately later on.

FredC · Jun 28, 2017

Milicron, mine has some of that cracking (nowhere near as bad), it has a serial number 1037X. If you have the serial number of that one, you could compare dates to see if it was a lot problem.

rons · Jun 28, 2017

Milacron said:
OK, change bad "paint" to bad "filler"...makes sense.

As you can see, the filler is much thicker than it needs to be. Have seen cracking over here with the same degree of thickness.

Davis In SC · Jun 28, 2017

I saw one yesterday, odd that it has a threaded spindle...

L Vanice · Jun 28, 2017

Davis In SC said:
I saw one yesterday, odd that it has a threaded spindle...

Franklin Hardinge applied for a patent on his taper lock spindle nose 21Dec1904, not long after buying the Cataract lathe design, which had a tapered spindle nose, but no locking slot to allow mounting a jaw chuck. Hardinge always promoted the taper lock spindle nose in their old catalogs and did not mention a threaded alternative. But I have plenty of examples of old 4C and 5C spindles with 1-5/8-10 and 2-3/16-10 threads. I have only ever heard of one 3C spindle with threads. In later years, the threaded spindle option was advertised. Some customers obviously preferred threads, even in modern times.

Larry

ewlsey · Jun 28, 2017

I don't know about this vintage, but Hardinge currently advertises that they use a "high build" primer that is approximately .030 thick. They do not use a "filler" like bondo or whatever you want to call it.

I've never seen the egg shell thing though. On any machine that I can recall.

bryan_machine · Jun 29, 2017

Is the name plate warped? It looks odd to me (maybe I just have odd eyes.) Maybe the whole machine was subjected to some fire like thermal abuse?

Stradbash · Jun 29, 2017

Milacron said:
OK, change bad "paint" to bad "filler"...makes sense.

Or the "High Build primer" as mentioned by another poster. It of course acts as a spray on filler and it very much looks to me as though that is what is failing, not to mention the adhesion of that coating to the castings.

Davis In SC · Jun 29, 2017

bryan_machine said:
Is the name plate warped? It looks odd to me (maybe I just have odd eyes.) Maybe the whole machine was subjected to some fire like thermal abuse?

I also viewed the machine, The rest of the finish was still in excellent condition.

Davis In SC · Jun 29, 2017

Milacron said:
FWIW, this was in an online auction that happened this morning. Thanks goodness I went to the inspection yesterday as I couldn't tell from the auctioneers photos the headstock looked anywhere near this bad....something looked "odd" in the photos but I would never have expected this. Also I didn't notice in the photos that it had a threaded nose spindle.....not a deal breaker but lowers it's value some.

I knew it had no tooling with it, but the tooling was a complete mess in separate lots...mostly jumbled up with tooling for an HC chucker and two DSM 59's just plopped willy nilly on a card table where anything could be easily stolen. The rest of it in a proper Vidmar cabinet but still hit 'n miss. Funny part is I noticed the winner bidder on the lathe got NONE of the tooling lots....so he's in for some shocks in that department.

I can envision some disagreements between buyers.. Hopefully some can buy/sell/swap some items.

Davis In SC · Jun 29, 2017

D Dubeau said:
My biggest auction pet peeve is selling all the machine specific tooling separate from the tool it goes with. Even worse is when they sell the tooling first.

Or at least sort the tooling out into machine-specific lots... Might have to hire a knowledgable person for a few days, but it would probably pay off in higher bids and less confusion and angry buyers.

Davis In SC · Jun 29, 2017

L Vanice said:
Franklin Hardinge applied for a patent on his taper lock spindle nose 21Dec1904, not long after buying the Cataract lathe design, which had a tapered spindle nose, but no locking slot to allow mounting a jaw chuck. Hardinge always promoted the taper lock spindle nose in their old catalogs and did not mention a threaded alternative. But I have plenty of examples of old 4C and 5C spindles with 1-5/8-10 and 2-3/16-10 threads. I have only ever heard of one 3C spindle with threads. In later years, the threaded spindle option was advertised. Some customers obviously preferred threads, even in modern times.

Larry

Just seemed odd that someone would buy a threaded nose in the late 80's. Perhaps at the time they had other older machines with the same nose, so they could use existing chucks.

Ever seen a Hardinge HLV-H with serious paint cracking ?

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