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Got a Chance to Buy a Hardinge HLV-H, Advice Needed...

cinematechnic

Cast Iron
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Location
Walnut Creek, CA
HLV-H.jpg

A tool and die shop close to me has shut down and the building housing the machines is being sold. Subsequently the machines will be sold as well.

The one machine I'm interested in is a Hardinge HLV-H. I'm hoping some members would be willing to provide some advice on what a good price would be.

While a bunch people were in there to look at the building, I got a chance to talk to the owner. He's an older gentleman and has retired due to health reasons.

He says he will be liquidating his machines and tooling but hasn't decided how he's going to go about it. I believe he would be willing to deal with me directly.

He told me he paid $16k for the Hardinge but didn't say how long ago. I understand $16k is "good money" and is only appropriate for a machine in good shape.

I own an operate a Schaublin 102N, which is great for a lot of things - but threading isn't one of those things. I've talked to many HLV owners and know that the HLV would suit my needs (mostly high precision one-off or very short runs). I know a member of this forum that is somewhat local to me who runs my threaded parts on his HLV and the results are always great.

The machine in question is an HLV-H, 1.5 HP / 230V, with "wiring diagram KLD-8220". I did not find the serial number (didn't know where to look perhaps someone can tell me). The machine runs and was in use recently.

It has the motor on the carriage, and a 1/6 HP "Gusher" coolant pump. It is fitted with an Accu-Rite DRO, "Wizard Lathe" IIRC.

There are about 60 5C collets in the collet trays, as well as a few large soft collets. There was a 4" 3-Jaw chuck that looked like it went with the HLV. The chuck did not look "special".

The lathe has a KDK toolpost and a few holders. Not sure how many holders total. There may be a steady rest in the package (have to confirm).

The carriage felt good with less backlash than another HLV I had operated for a while at a prototyping shop I worked at briefly. The torque needed to turn the wheel was reasonably consistent from end to end of the bed. The X axis slide felt good with minimal backlash.

Cosmetics: it's not a super-clean machine. There is paint wear on the top of the headstock and tailstock (but not down to metal). There is worn paint on the chip tray. It has the shaper corners on the chip tray which I'm told means it's a newer machine.

The machine is local and my transport costs would be low.

Although this is a unique opportunity, regrettably I'm not in a great position financially to make a deal happen. However I know that opportunities in business don't come at convenient times. Also, having the ability to make my own threaded parts would be a big benefit to me.

I need some perspective of what would be a price that I'd be stupid to pass up, what would be reasonable (and whether it's worth the stretch), and at what point I need to let it go as being price too high. "Too high" in this case the price at which I could readily find a lathe in similar condition in the future.

Thanks in advance for your input.
 
The machine in question is an HLV-H, 1.5 HP / 230V, with "wiring diagram KLD-8220". I did not find the serial number (didn't know where to look perhaps someone can tell me). The machine runs and was in use recently.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Well I can't tell you a good US price as I live across in the UK but it does not sound too expensive.

The serial number is stamped into a flat recess at the back right hand corner of the bed behind the tailstock.

I think many will agree that the serial number matters very little. You can have a very young (high serial number) that thas been flogged and abused or a VERY old (low serial number) that has been cared for.

Serial number location

Just my 2 cents worth ... good luck!

John :typing::cheers:
 
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Not pristine but that machine looks pretty nice and clean in my random humble opinion. You should go for it, try to get it around $12K, if he paid 16 and got a lot of use out of it he should be able to let it go somewhere around there. Anything up to around 15 is probably a good enough deal, if it starts getting up around 20 or over I'd walk away.
 
Looks early 80's year.....I would think it should max out at around $12,500. If was the EM version with metric threading would be worth way more, like $20,000...but its not.
 
Not pristine but that machine looks pretty nice and clean in my random humble opinion. .
Looks kinda dirty to me....a bit more worn paint than most 80's models, data plates missing on the spindle control levers (but other data plates look ok), base is unusually dirty looking but might clean up easy enough.

I mean if that one is "pretty nice and clean" then what is this one ? ;)

FullSizeRender-55.jpg

Of course it is newer... 1996 ....all original paint...updated DRO display
 
Paint is worn yes, but I still say it doesn't look too dirty or disgusting. I suggested $12K, you max out at $12.5, so we're not thinking too differently. Yours looks way nicer, sure, but I doubt it can be bought for $12K, more like $25 maybe. So what is your point exactly?
 
Looks kinda dirty to me....a bit more worn paint than most 80's models, data plates missing on the spindle control levers (but other data plates look ok), base is unusually dirty looking but might clean up easy enough.

I mean if that one is "pretty nice and clean" then what is this one ? ;)

View attachment 203229

Of course it is newer... 1996 ....all original paint...updated DRO display

I had forgotten how pretty she was!
 
Thanks for all the prompt replies. I will be seeing the owner tomorrow morning. It helps to have some perspective before any talk of price...


...If was the EM version with metric threading would be worth way more, like $20,000...but its not.

Is it still possible to cut metric threads? Perhaps by using a 127 tooth gear? All the lenses and cameras I work on are designed to ISO standards.
 
Paint is worn yes, but I still say it doesn't look too dirty or disgusting. I suggested $12K, you max out at $12.5, so we're not thinking too differently. Yours looks way nicer, sure, but I doubt it can be bought for $12K, more like $25 maybe. So what is your point exactly?
Now you're changing your description from "pretty nice and clean" to "doesn't look too dirty or disgusting"....which I agree with the second description. I guess my point it most HLV-H's that age I have run across at live auctions and such looked a little nicer.....I usually paid in the $6,500 (+10% buyer rip) range for very similar but slightly cleaner HLV-H's in a 2004 to 2010 auction years....but of course got more than that on eBay...maybe $10K to $11K.

Still, looks can be deceiving....ran across one 80's HLV-H at an aerospace shop near Macon, GA years ago that looked nice but I could pull up on the carriage near the headstock (but not near the tailstock)...had surprising amount of way wear. Naturally the buyer had no clue that was the case and bid it up pretty high. :dopeslap:

-------------------------------------------

As an aside, back to the OP's machine of discussion.....it's slightly curious there is a DRO (Fagor ? Anilam ?) but I don't see a scale for Z axis. I suppose there could be one on the back side but that might nix any possibility of adding a taper attachment in the future. Also the X scale doesn't seem to have a protective cover to keep chips and coolant out.
 
As an aside, back to the OP's machine of discussion.....it's slightly curious there is a DRO (Fagor ? Anilam ?) but I don't see a scale for Z axis. I suppose there could be one on the back side but that might nix any possibility of adding a taper attachment in the future. Also the X scale doesn't seem to have a protective cover to keep chips and coolant out.

Milacron, thanks for your posts. Here's a photo of the scales. Let me know what you think. The scale is Accu-Rite, and the DRO "Wizard Lathe".

HLV-H_Scales.jpg
 
Thanks for all the prompt replies. I will be seeing the owner tomorrow morning. It helps to have some perspective before any talk of price...




Is it still possible to cut metric threads? Perhaps by using a 127 tooth gear? All the lenses and cameras I work on are designed to ISO standards.
Yes, Hardinge made a special change gear bracket and metric conversion gears for the HLV-H. Those parts are rare and expensive. It is possible to make the bracket if you have a drawing, and someone has made copies of the Hardinge gears in the past. Others have adapted Myford (English) gears to work on the Hardinge.

The lathe was furnished new with a change gear bracket and three gears that let you cut 10 TPI, a pitch that is not in the quick change box. Those parts may still be with the lathe. The metric gear bracket and conversion gears were an option that most shops never had.

The DRO scale on the back of the bed prevents you from mounting a taper attachment.

Larry
 
Yes, Hardinge made a special change gear bracket and metric conversion gears for the HLV-H. Those parts are rare and expensive. It is possible to make the bracket if you have a drawing, and someone has made copies of the Hardinge gears in the past...

Larry

Thanks Larry! My friend who is local has an HLV-H and he has cut metric threads for me so obviously he has the part you mentioned.

I've heard Hardinge parts are very costly. But for me coming from Schaublin it won't come as much of a shock. In any case if the part can be made I will probably need to do so.
 
If you need to cut metric threads regularly you should try to find an HLV-EM. To go from metric to english and back with just the turn of a knob is oh so convenient. As an aside the -EM gear box is larger and can cut more of either metric or english threads. The -EM lathe can cut 30 tpi for example, which the -H cannot (at least not without screwing around with change gears).
 
Thanks Larry! My friend who is local has an HLV-H and he has cut metric threads for me so obviously he has the part you mentioned.
Some folks that have an HLV-EM call it an HLV-H as that is what is stamped on the data plate. In fact, literally, mine is neither, but a HLV-DR....which means "english metric with digital readout" (the readout eliminating the necessity of geared dual dials on the cross slide and feed so that the only dual dials are on the compound and tailstock)....and yet, even it is stamped simply "HLV-H" on the data plate.

Re the DRO on the one you are looking at....Acu-Rite is the DRO and scales of choice from Hardinge, but never noticed the "Wizard" model display....must be pretty old. Shame to have the Z scale at the rear as it's covering the T slot for the taper attachment, of which plenty are available in the used market for $1200 or so. The scales might work with a newer Acu-Rite LCD display (with appropriate connector adapters)
 
He paid $16K for the machine. What's the number on the price tag, right now?

Don't get involved in a two party auction, where you, the buyer, wind up bidding against yourself.
Flat-out ask him the price. If it's good, buy it. If not, say thanks but no thanks.

Also check to see the control module for the carriage feeds operates correctly - that is, that the knob
controls the motor speed over the full range. That vintage control module is often contains a
single large potted unit that fails so the feed motor is either at zero speed or full speed. Hardinge
sells a fix which is not inexpensive.
 
He paid $16K for the machine. What's the number on the price tag, right now?
Yeah, what he paid is nearly meaningless since it might have looked much nicer when he paid that....or for that matter might have been new.....wonder how much an HLV-H cost new in 1982 ?

The rear view close up of the Z scale does confirm my suspicions that the machine is verging on the "dirty, and dinged paint" end of the spectrum for an HLV-H of that vintage.


Of course there is this beauty to consider :willy_nilly:

11" x 2" HARDINGE MODEL HLV-EM LATHE: STOCK # 59679 | eBay

This has been on eBay a long time and will probably remain there for all eternity....I can't imagine in my wildest dreams who would buy that thing, even at half his ask price. It's as if the seller was thinking "hmmm...how can we make this as ugly as possible?"
 
...Re the DRO on the one you are looking at....Acu-Rite is the DRO and scales of choice from Hardinge, but never noticed the "Wizard" model display....must be pretty old.

Here is a photo:

Anilam_Wizard_Lathe.jpg

Anilam Wizard Lathe
P/N A1930000

(Scales are labeled Acu-Rite)

I was very surprised when I looked at the back of the display and it read "Anilam Electronics Corp. Miami, Florida". I'm from there and never heard of anything like that being manufactured there.

BTW, machine serial number is: HLV-H-879x-T, so according to the info I found it was built between 1977 and 1983.

My guess is he bought the HLV between 1997 and 2013
 
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I followed that link, and now my eyes are bleeding.

Goddammit those morons are just over the top with those paint jobs.
Absolutely disgusting. Who buys that shit?
Clueless export customers?

I think I need to 'ask a question' on the EBAY ad...
"Are you really that F'in clueless about appropriate machine tool paint colors and how they relate to the reality of you NEVER selling this POS" ?
But obviously he is, and doesn't get it.
 








 
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