Hendey Lathe Questions

Several years ago I looked over a mutual friends Hendey lathe. It has been long enough that I do not remember any particulars. He recently passed away and his brother is looking to sell his equipment. I want to determine a few details about the lathe, and a reasonable fair market price to pay him for it. He sent me a few pictures which I am hopefully attaching.

I think the SN is 51547, which I believe is after the 50's acquisition by Barber? How are these lathes regarded compared to other quality American lathes?

Does this lathe have hardened bed ways? I see it has a D1-6 spindle. Does it have a spindle taper for centers/collets? If so what is it?






Model/manual/ any additional information would be appreciated!

Serail will either be 2XXXX, 3XXXX or 4XXXX - this last the few made by BC

Looks like a 14 X 30 18 speed

Per B5.9 Spindle Noses, spindle taper for D1-6" is MT5 or American Standard 200

Here is '40 manual - thanks to Greg Menke for hosting this for me

http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/hendey/1940-Hendey-Op-Man.pdf

Fal Grunt said:

Several years ago I looked over a mutual friends Hendey lathe. It has been long enough that I do not remember any particulars. He recently passed away and his brother is looking to sell his equipment. I want to determine a few details about the lathe, and a reasonable fair market price to pay him for it. He sent me a few pictures which I am hopefully attaching.

I think the SN is 51547, which I believe is after the 50's acquisition by Barber? How are these lathes regarded compared to other quality American lathes?

Does this lathe have hardened bed ways? I see it has a D1-6 spindle. Does it have a spindle taper for centers/collets? If so what is it?

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Model/manual/ any additional information would be appreciated!

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It looks like it is that rare Australian version, not sure just what it is worth.

Well, I can't for some reason get the other tag to upload, and it is a blurry picture he sent me, but it appears to be stamped 51547.

This could be a property tag, because I cannot make out the label completely.

The serial number should be cast into the bed correct?

Serials are always right end on top in between two front ways adjacent the pair of screws holding up right hand lead screw bracket stamped into machined cast iron.. All hard beds will have an H in the number followed by a sequence number - I.E., they kept track of how many hard beds went out the door

Fal Grunt said:

Well, I can't for some reason get the other tag to upload, and it is a blurry picture he sent me, but it appears to be stamped 51547.

This could be a property tag, because I cannot make out the label completely.

The serial number should be cast into the bed correct?

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Is it going to be for sale, or are you thinking of buying it?

Fine old girl like that in good condition perhaps 2 to $4k.. Its worth $10,000 easy or more but nobody will pay for a large, slow, heavy, older machine..

With two chucks and a taper attachment on a very good day someone might give $5k or pay someone $300 to haul it away.

HENDEY 14 X 3 LATHE - tools - by owner - sale

Wanting to buy it.

Will find the serial when I am there next week.

3jaw 4jaw Jacobs rubberflex chuck and a 40 position tool post. Not sure if any other tooling comes with it.

From here it Looks like the shop may be full if full of extras..I would love to have it but no room.

That$1700 Detroit Hendey has been shown a few times and is not moving.. Yes may be a cream puff or POS. (pile of scrap).

I don't really have the space or the cash for it at the moment. But I need a general purpose lathe pretty bad. My SB 9" is great for some of the small delicate things I make and work on. My 10EE is great for hogging and roughing, but didn't turn out to be nearly as accurate as I had hoped.

So I'm hoping this will be a great middle ground. I do lots of threading so I am excited for the leadscrew reverse which I have used and love on Monarchs. So I think the lathe would be a heck of an improvement, given it's not worn like my monarch.

What spindle bore would this lathe have?

1 1/2" - goes with the MT5 mentioned in my post above

Fal Grunt said:

What spindle bore would this lathe have?

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Fal Grunt said:

I don't really have the space or the cash for it at the moment. But I need a general purpose lathe pretty bad. My SB 9" is great for some of the small delicate things I make and work on. My 10EE is great for hogging and roughing, but didn't turn out to be nearly as accurate as I had hoped.

So I'm hoping this will be a great middle ground. I do lots of threading so I am excited for the leadscrew reverse which I have used and love on Monarchs. So I think the lathe would be a heck of an improvement, given it's not worn like my monarch.

What spindle bore would this lathe have?

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? If you cannot (afford to) correct for wear, then cycling through one tired old lathe after another in hopes of progressing is going to be similar to running used cars on used tires, and mis-matched, at that.

Survivable, usually, risky, always, and never better than "marginal", even on the best of days, IOW.

Would the price of another old lathe be better spent cleaning-up the 10EE?

Would the 10EE bring enough cash to clean-up the Hendey?

It not only has a larger spindle-bore and swing, it has greater c-to-c daylight.
Also slightly more costly to tool-up than the 10EE D1-3 or SB9 threaded nose.

Just check the cost of six D1 camlocks, or a backplate already so fitted vs a D1-3.

And how d'you know it is NOT "worn"?

johnoder said:

1 1/2" - goes with the MT5 mentioned in my post above

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Thanks John, I do not know enough to correlate the two together. I appreciate your knowledge and your willingness to provide it!

Monarchist, all valid points, but a few thoughts for clarification.

I agree with the comment of cycling through tired old equipment, but at this point in my venture, I cannot access capital to buy otherwise "better" equipment. A 60's or 70's Clausing came up for sale near me, came out of the same Ford plant as my nearly new Moore Jig Borer and was in even better shape. It was english/metric and was in every aspect brand spanking new. $6k. I haven't figured out the whole, pulling cash from thin air aspect yet, and after being laughed at by the bank for wanted to buy old equipment, have given up on that route. My rigger has a Clausing Colchester I believe it is, that was built in 85, completely brand new, with cabinets full of tooling. Crates full of accessories and collets. Piles of cutters and inserts. He wants $8500 for it. Last I was in the bank, I was told the smallest "Small Business" loan they offered was $250,000. The banker was polite enough not to say there was no way in hell they would give me a loan like that. (not that I would want one!)

So on the flip side, I did take up scraping. I spent more than what I paid for the Monarch to travel to Maryland to take King's scraping class. And while I did not learn everything I wanted to learn, I learned a hell of a lot. I think the Monarch will most likely stay, and continue to be a bulldozer. My hope is someday to start working on it, but it really needs a full rebuild. The drive is in good shape, but the saddle is badly worn, the tailstock is badly worn, everything... is worn. I bought it about 10 months before I took the class. If I had taken the class first, I probably would not have bought the Monarch.

I think more than likely, the Hendey will bring in the cash necessary to clean up the 10EE, or, to buy a nicer 10EE. Or start making payments on the 13EE/1000EE that is eventually coming my way. Or to buy the Mazak I keep dreaming will come up for auction when I have time to go get it and cash in the bank to buy it.

I think the larger spindle bore and swing, along with the C to C distance will be a huge plus. I have access to and use a Monarch Model 60 17" for if and when I need to run big stuff, or metric. It is nearly as accurate as the 13EE. I cut a shaft recently that had a section about 20" in length about 1.25" in diameter. Over that 20" it had a taper of less than .0005. My 10EE has about .001 taper per inch.

I know D1-6 can add up quick, I think the last chuck I shopped with a friend he bought a 14" Burnerd chuck in nice shape for $700. However, to get me going, I believe it comes with a 3 jaw, 4 jaw, and Jacobs Rubberflex. Condition, brand, quality, I do not know, and will not know until I get a chance to inspect it.

Finally, I would have to apologize. English at its greatest, or rather my ineptness with english? What I meant was, GIVEN it's NOT worn like my Monarch. So, I think it would be a heck of an improvement if it is NOT worn like my Monarch. If it is worn like my monarch, then it would be useful, but not that much of an improvement. (Just about all my equipment are used cars with mismatched tires)

I've never actually run a 10EE, but I have worked on them. "Bulldozer" and "roughing" aren't the words that come to mind for such a machine. A gear drive Hendey would be a lot more efficient at rough work IMHO.

I ran a Monarch Model 50 (I think). Must have been made in the late 1960s. That was a wonderful machine. The variable speed spindle was kind of weird, but that was a smooth and tight machine. I wish I had it.

Fal Grunt said:

I agree with the comment of cycling through tired old equipment, but at this point in my venture, I ..

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.. am in the same economic fix as most other small shops, worldwide..

IF... I had what I am only able to GUESS you have as tasking.. I think I would keep the SB9, seek a Lodge & Shipley with inserted ways, have those ground, "off machine", then use the scraping skills to insure they were properly re-installed, scrape-in the TS & carriage bits.

Otherwise.. you really need to take the 10EE or Hendey bed, entire, out for grinding before scraping even becomes practical for anyone still having to spend most of the day on trying to earn a crust.

The other option, of course, is a far NEWER Taiwanese, Korean, Italian, Brazilian lathe that was never as durable, but simply hasn't been exposed to as much time, wear or abuse.

Harbouring Grand and "legendary" Old Iron is a hobby. "Luxury" one, even.

Hardly the best way to earn a living.

Ewlsey I've yet to run a Hendey, but have run a lot of other brands. I've never run a 9" to 14" lathe of any brand that will handle a cut like a 10EE. Not saying there isn't one out there, I've just never run one.

Monarchist, thanks for the suggestion, I'll keep an eye out for a L&S.

I appreciate all the information about the Hendey guys. Will report back what I find.

Fal Grunt said:

Ewlsey I've yet to run a Hendey, but have run a lot of other brands. I've never run a 9" to 14" lathe of any brand that will handle a cut like a 10EE. Not saying there isn't one out there, I've just never run one.

Monarchist, thanks for the suggestion, I'll keep an eye out for a L&S.

I appreciate all the information about the Hendey guys. Will report back what I find.

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*cough*... You need to get out more. That SB9 has limited your world-view.

A 10EE is not a hogger. Just stiffly made for uber-repeatable light and medium cuts with a very much lower rate of wear over a longer span of time than average.

Hendey 9" (nominal) "Tool & Gage" is another one. Nebel Microturn is a veritable Unicorn, heavier than either. Rivett 10X0, too.

Problem is.. than ANY of these "Grand Old" super-precision "toolroom" lathes are sooo heavy, have so much longer carriages and wider beds than average ...that once they ARE badly worn?

They are three or four times as much work to PUT BACK RIGHT as a lathe with a fraction of the mass and mating surface areas.

Yes. All that "extra" Iron and costlier bearings and greater surface areas to be ground and scraped and flaked works against fast and cheap restoral once they are so worn as to be "over the hill". As most are, by this late date.

Wishing otherwise won't change that.

One either has the time and money to ... well.... "invest in a marriage", even "waste on a love affair" are not too far off the mark.

Got bills to pay?

There are wiser choices than trying to live off "legends".

Nathaniel,
I think that, by now, you've enough measuring tools, skill and knowledge to properly assess the wear of the Hendey. Personally, I would consider bad spindle bearings, absence of a steady rest, and excessive and uneven wear as deal breakers or, at least, determining if the lathe will be worth scrap minus rigging costs or $1200-1500 at most (if there is insignificant wear near headstock, the single-tooth dog clutch mechanism works well, etc.).
This machine is rather heavy, too heavy for most home workshops and too old for most business: especially if the brother of your friend wants it gone soon without hassles, I think $1000 would be a generous offer.

Paolo

Monarchist said:

*cough*... You need to get out more. That SB9 has limited your world-view.

A 10EE is not a hogger. Just stiffly made for uber-repeatable light and medium cuts with a very much lower rate of wear over a longer span of time than average.

Hendey 9" (nominal) "Tool & Gage" is another one. Nebel Microturn is a veritable Unicorn, heavier than either. Rivett 10X0, too.

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I need to get out more because I've never run a veritable unicorn? How does one do that?

I've run most of the major Asian brands and most of the American brands and I have yet to find one that will do comparable work. Do you have any that are not unicorns? I'd be interested to look at them.

Paolo_MD said:

Nathaniel,
I think that, by now, you've enough measuring tools, skill and knowledge to properly assess the wear of the Hendey. Personally, I would consider bad spindle bearings, absence of a steady rest, and excessive and uneven wear as deal breakers or, at least, determining if the lathe will be worth scrap minus rigging costs or $1200-1500 at most (if there is insignificant wear near headstock, the single-tooth dog clutch mechanism works well, etc.).
This machine is rather heavy, too heavy for most home workshops and too old for most business: especially if the brother of your friend wants it gone soon without hassles, I think $1000 would be a generous offer.

Paolo

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Paolo, thanks for your input. Spindle bearings are definitely a deal breaker for me. I am hoping when I am there to inspect he will let me take a couple cuts. That will quickly let me access condition instead of needing to measure everything. I assume it is still under power. We all know where that goes...

I'll be doing all the rigging, which of course is still a consideration of time and fuel.

Fal Grunt said:

I need to get out more because I've never run a veritable unicorn? How does one do that?

I've run most of the major Asian brands and most of the American brands and I have yet to find one that will do comparable work. Do you have any that are not unicorns? I'd be interested to look at them.

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I'll be "interested to look at" one of my own - paid for some time ago, sight unseen.

I just have to get clear of another week of Estate Executor work and motate down to Milacron's warehouse and haul it home.

"Unicorn" enough. French lathe. Cazeneuve HBX-360-BC. Just a tad larger work envelope than a 10EE, barely lighter, more threads (Inch/metric) and scores of years newer/less worn than even my "better" 10EE.

"Day Job".. long time ago.. 24" to 72" lathes, 8-foot vertical turning lathe. Typically 15, 20, to 50 HP. many, many Niles, several L&S, one Cinncy, one W&S, one Gisholt, etc.

And then there were mills...

Point is that "manual, subtractive, machining" is not what is once was, nor ever will be again.

CNC rules what is left. You don't need a still-good-for-another-hundred-years manual lathe to earn a crust. The reverse actually makes better economic sense. A "consumable", if you will.

Additive or neutral processing (very high precision casting & stamping, sheet-goods forming, laser printing..) has marginalized subtractive machining, regardless, and will continue to do.