HLV - using Hi-Lo lever with a VFD
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  1. #1
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    Default HLV - using Hi-Lo lever with a VFD

    I have my motor fitted into the base of my HLV and I;m just about to modify the wiring for VFD operation. I can't make my mind up on how to wire the fast/slow lever.

    I'm torn between three options though I'm open to further suggestions:

    Low - Stop - High which is the factory default

    Rev - Stop - Fwd with the fwd/rev switch substituted for low/high speed

    Jog - Stop - Fwd which is an option I'm seriously considering

    I am interested in hearing the opinion of how people have or would have utilised this control lever with a VFD along with the practical reasoning behind it (something more than 'because that's how Hardinge did it).

    What say you all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter. View Post
    I have my motor fitted into the base of my HLV and I;m just about to modify the wiring for VFD operation. I can't make my mind up on how to wire the fast/slow lever.

    I'm torn between three options though I'm open to further suggestions:

    Low - Stop - High which is the factory default

    Rev - Stop - Fwd with the fwd/rev switch substituted for low/high speed

    Jog - Stop - Fwd which is an option I'm seriously considering

    I am interested in hearing the opinion of how people have or would have utilised this control lever with a VFD along with the practical reasoning behind it (something more than 'because that's how Hardinge did it).

    What say you all?
    Jog - or 'creep' - should be a possibility with any/all of the above. Though I'm not sure how valuable either would be on a tiny Hardinge vs a 50-inch or so Niles, a large shaper or planer.

    Otherwise .. most of the advice I have seen on PM where two-speed motors were to be VFD'ed has been to use the higher speed winding, then let the VFD do all the rest.

    From that winding's 'base' RPM and upward, I'd expect the VFD to provide better load regulation than a DC motor operated in Field-Weakened range. Base downward, the reverse - advantage DC.

    For that reason, I can see an advantage to trying to keep the VFD'ed LOW speed winding combo "available", even if one has to come to a full stop to shift modes. Cranking the high-speed winding's RPM down with reduced Hz alone might not serve well.

    One probably needs a VFD with dual-mode storage for two sets of parameters, though.

    Do you have that sort?

    JM2CW

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    I'm not using the 2 speed motor I have fitted a modern 2.2kw Siemens motor but I've kept the manual adjustable speed control. I can electronically invoke the slow speed in the VFD but what I am particularly interested in is how people have utilised that one lever to suit their needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter. View Post
    I'm not using the 2 speed motor
    That's probably to the good, then.

    Do you gain any reduction in confusion by making the controls act in a similar manner to your 10EE?

    VFD signal input choices won't be hard to change, later, if need be, so I don't see you getting 'stuck' if experience in-use suggests a change from whatever initial choice you make.

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    Well it's interesting you should say that because it's the handy fwd/rev lever on the 10ee that got me to thinking there might be a better utilisation for it. Not strictly for threading like on the 10ee because of course the HLV doesn't need to be reversed for threading return but for some other reason perhaps. Only problem is - I can't think of a good one except perhaps spinning the collet closer handwheel for collet changing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter. View Post
    Well it's interesting you should say that because it's the handy fwd/rev lever on the 10ee that got me to thinking there might be a better utilisation for it. Not strictly for threading like on the 10ee because of course the HLV doesn't need to be reversed for threading return but for some other reason perhaps. Only problem is - I can't think of a good one except perhaps spinning the collet closer handwheel for collet changing.
    I'm still experimenting - on and off with everettengineer. "Plan A" (also B and C) are for all of my 10EE controls to be on the carriage, right side, about where the curve below the 'arf-nut lever is.

    Armoured cable crossing under the ways to a pivot-point, rear, only has to swing 10" either side of central, so no need of rods and such, nor distracting moving sealtight snake at the operator side.

    We 'own' the last-mile ingineering on these critters, bought in sweat as well as coin of the realm.

    May as well go another yard or three and make 'em work the way WE want them to work.

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    I am not familar with the speed controls on the HLV, I have worked on newer HLVH's and the speed control box.
    If you mount a box up in the general position that the newer lathes have, I would put a 3 or 4 position selector switch and the same number of speed control pots to have selectable presets at the flick of a switch. One could always add a speed display there if wanted.

    Then use the existing lever for Fwd Stop Rev.

    Bill

    You could put a jog button on that box too it might take a relay or two to work out the logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitandmiss View Post
    You could put a jog button on that box too it might take a relay or two to work out the logic.
    "Creep" - more useful, actually, is dead-easy with an SSD 514 4Q DC Drive - SPDT centre-off spring-loaded toggle switch & two presetable trimpots to bias the single-control pot off the BRAKE-STOP centrepoint towards FWD or REV side. Can get down to about 1/4 RPM. Handy for lining-up chuck changes or engaging reduction gears.

    Something similar may be in your VFD's bag of tricks as well.

    As the tiny Hardinge spindle is pretty easy to turn by hand, 10EE not much harder, the greater gain might be if one could activate it with a footswitch so as to leave BOTH hands free to manipulate a chuck, faceplate, lever to engage gears, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter. View Post
    Low - Stop - High which is the factory default

    Rev - Stop - Fwd with the fwd/rev switch substituted for low/high speed

    Jog - Stop - Fwd which is an option I'm seriously considering
    I went with

    Stop - Stop - Fwd.

    Didn't like the idea of a 'stop' you can miss by going too far with the lever, and never felt the need for a 'jog' - you can pull the chuck round by hand easy enough. Reverse is a 'once in a blue moon' thing and a switch on the cabinet is fine for that.

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    If I were doing this I'd poke around in the drive manual and see if there's a speed-up/slow-down mode.

    Idea being if the drive could be set up to preset to some relatively slow speed, then the I would remove the
    detent from the Hi/Lo lever and make the mechanism spring-loaded to return to center. Then use contacts
    on the hi/low switch to command the drive.

    Start at 500 rpm, say, and then the stick acts like the faster/slower button on an HLVH.

    Not sure if drives have that feature though.

    My next default would be to leave the fwd/stop/rev stick in place to run the drive via logic inputs, and
    then completely remove the hi/low stick and put the speed control pot in that hole in the casting.

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    I don't have those lever options Jim I have just slow - stop - fast. The other lever is the threading control. It's an interesting concept using the lever for multiple speeds. What I might do is look into adding some detents and making the lever 5-position, Stop in the middle then slow/fast rev and fwd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter. View Post
    I don't have those lever options Jim I have just slow - stop - fast. The other lever is the threading control. It's an interesting concept using the lever for multiple speeds. What I might do is look into adding some detents and making the lever 5-position, Stop in the middle then slow/fast rev and fwd.
    Right of course I was thinking DV-59 there.

    Possibly drill out the center of the low/off/high switch to mount the speed pot, and turn that stick into a fwd/off/reverse control?

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    Ask Bill Todd what to do. He knows Hardinge lathes.


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