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HVL Purchase Question

majohnson

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Erie, CO
HLV Purchase Question

Looking at an older Hardinge that is been used but not seen the best of care. The bed has some wear from use, but there isn’t any galling that I been able to find. The gibbs have been tighten enough that if I run the saddle longitudinally just past halfway it tightens up. All the finish has come off the lathe, same with all the screen printing switch plates and dials. It does come with plenty of collets, halve are turned for parts they made. Also a 3 and 4 jaw chuck.

I have a limited budget and this is the only I have seen for sale in the Boulder Colorado area. I know they are plentiful on the East and North East areas. I didn’t run it and the guy that runs it is coming in to demo it. I don’t don’t want to run something that isn’t mine.
 
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Looking at an older Hardinge that is been used but not seen the best of care. The bed has some wear from use, but there isn’t any galling that I been able to find. The gibbs have been tighten enough that if I run the saddle longitudinally just past halfway it tightens up. All the finish has come off the lathe, same with all the screen printing switch plates and dials. It does come with plenty of collets, halve are turned for parts they made. Also a 3 and 4 jaw chuck.

I have a limited budget and this is the only I have seen for sale in the Boulder Colorado area. I know they are plentiful on the East and North East areas. I didn’t run it and the guy that runs it is coming in to demo it. I don’t don’t want to run something that isn’t mine.

What goal do you have for your "limited budget" (anyone ever have any other kind..)?

A functional lathe, ready to use, even if imperfect?

Or a Hardinge-carcass, just because it is (or WAS) a "legendary" machine?
 
Thanks for the input. The finish is gone on the lathe I look at. I have seen a few lathe with finish chipping away in big pieces, my search on the cause, they had mentioned it was a primer issue. Another said it was because it was kept in a unheated building. Are there specific item or items to check before I purchase?
 
I ended up purchasing the HLV-H and it in my garage. The clean up is going to take some effort. One positive about all the oil mist everywhere, is I have not come across any rust. Cleaning the motor spec plate and it looks like the day it was installed. I was surprised that the motor as big as it is only draws 3.5 amps.

There is such a build up of old paint on the headstock, I cannot find the serial number. There is plate on back of the big electrical box that has a serial number, any chance they are the same.
 
Thanks guys. I found it on the backside of the bed. The serial number on the electrical panel door and bed match. In all for a lathe manufacture in 1968, mechanically it seem pretty solid. What things should I look for, as go over this thing. It does need some paint, but there’s a lot of old finish that needs to come off first.

I want to get all new felt and remove all the old fluids. I dump some #4 Way oil and things didn’t want to move very easily. I read somewhere about a way oil pump upgrade any ideas on what models that might apply to.
 
I finally tried to power the my lathe running it off of 220 single phase to a Hitachi WJ200 1.5kw that was recommend by the folks at Drive Warehouse. I have used a smaller Hitachi VFD to run my mill for several yearsoff a VFD, the difference is the motor on the mill is wired directly to the VFD, and everything else is run off of 120v household current.

With the lathe I am trying to power the entire electrical panel off the VFD. Anyone else have their HLV-H powered by just a VFD?

I ended up burning up one of the Allen Bradley relays mark 1MF. The oil inside the relay leak out. Also I had a problem with the VFD itself, it has to be sent back to Hitachi.

I tried to get a copy of the wiring diagram, working with Linda at Hardinge. The problem is the number tag inside in electrical panel is missing. I sent pictures of the panel wiring to a Hardinge tech that works out of Maine and had a local machinery tech come bye, no one recognizes the wiring configuration. I would post a picture but it doesn’t work out for me.

Is it possible to run the entire electrical panel and motor off a VFD. I would say it going to probably take a couple of weeks before I can try running this thing again.
 
As far as I know, VFDs want to be connected directly to the motor, without any switch, contactor, etc. between them and the motor. At least for the VFDs I have, it's clearly stated in the manual that, having (and operating while the circuit is energized) a power switch between the VFD and the motor could cause irreparable damages to the VFD.

Paolo
 
The VFD has a fault and won’t clear. The folks at Hitachi told me to send it back for inspection.

Is there a phase convertor that seems to work better with all of the HLV-H electronics. I want to get one ordered so I can get this thing up and running before I take it apart. It has several different gray colors, I just want to make it all match.
 
With the lathe I am trying to power the entire electrical panel off the VFD.

This will not work! you will probably kill the drive. (sounds like you already have!).

Vfds are designed to drive motors only, there are too many other bits inside an hlvh to use one as a psu.

I have rewired my hlvh with a stepup transformer and vfd for the motor . it requires some logic switching (simple relay circuit) to prevent damage to the drive when changing speed . (i intend to refit the lathe with a vfd for each speed to make the switching simpler)

see below for link to diagram

Hardinge HLV-H VFD conversion.pdf - Google Drive
 
Can anyone recommend a rotary phase converter? I have look at both Phoenix and America Rotary, from what I read a 3hp should be enough to power up HLV-H. What are others running for a RPC? Thanks for the diagrams, my serial number dates it back to 1968.

There is no wire code inside the panel box. Given that the beds is .003 under posted spec I am pretty sure the thing has been rebuilt. The wiring it self is in great shape, every panel I removed to check the wiring, looks like new. Everything work as it should when unplugged the lathe to load it. Hopefully I can find the correct RPC and get it up and running.
 
This will not work! you will probably kill the drive. (sounds like you already have!).

Vfds are designed to drive motors only, there are too many other bits inside an hlvh to use one as a psu.

I have rewired my hlvh with a stepup transformer and vfd for the motor . it requires some logic switching (simple relay circuit) to prevent damage to the drive when changing speed . (i intend to refit the lathe with a vfd for each speed to make the switching simpler)

Looks complicated. I'll stick with running my entire workshop off a single inverter. It's a big one though...

Can anyone recommend a rotary phase converter? I have look at both Phoenix and America Rotary, from what I read a 3hp should be enough to power up HLV-H. What are others running for a RPC? Thanks for the diagrams, my serial number dates it back to 1968.

There is no wire code inside the panel box. Given that the beds is .003 under posted spec I am pretty sure the thing has been rebuilt. The wiring it self is in great shape, every panel I removed to check the wiring, looks like new. Everything work as it should when unplugged the lathe to load it. Hopefully I can find the correct RPC and get it up and running.

Look as the smallest PhasePerfect offering. The price might be a bit more than a rotary converter, but your ears and your power bill will thank you over the years.
 
Can anyone recommend a rotary phase converter? I have look at both Phoenix and America Rotary, from what I read a 3hp should be enough to power up HLV-H. What are others running for a RPC? Thanks for the diagrams, my serial number dates it back to 1968.

There is no wire code inside the panel box. Given that the beds is .003 under posted spec I am pretty sure the thing has been rebuilt. The wiring it self is in great shape, every panel I removed to check the wiring, looks like new. Everything work as it should when unplugged the lathe to load it. Hopefully I can find the correct RPC and get it up and running.

I'd not BOTHER with an RPC of less than 5 HP idler. Possible starting load issues, the controls cost much the same, and Murphy sez you'll add something that also needs 3-Phase. RPC are good at sharing mixed loads, more than one machine tool, and with no more wiring concern than insuring any controls are NOT on the "generated" leg, as already mentioned.

VFD are serially monogamous, not good at polyamory.

Oh.. That "relay" marked 1 MFD that leaked oil?

You've described blowing an oil-filled CAPACITOR, not a relay. That will need replaced if you have not already done so.

Get your VFD sorted, put is aside for your milling machine or sumthin'.

An RPC will do fine.

A Phase-Perfect would do better-yet, but blow your budget rather than a capacitor.

:)
 
First off an HLVH has a 3/4 - 3/8 hp two speed motor. A modest VFD will drive that fine.

VFD goes right to the motor. Strip out all the control electronics - yes the entire box on the left of the machine, empty. Put
the VFD in that. Wire the motor hardwired for high speed and control speed, FWD/REV with the drive.

Want coolant? Run the pump with a static converter.

OK, you want a rotary say. 5 hp would be a good choice as motors of that size are inexpensive to make the converter.

If this were mine, and I did not already have my rotary, I'd go the VFD route in a heartbeat.
 
My VFD on BP has never miss a step in 10 yrs, that why it was my first thought when it came to powering a lathe. I over look the switching component. I received shipping info on the Allen Bradley relays earlier today. They are used but since there is only NOS pricing on new I found were mark up substantially.

The American Rotary 5hp is on order, I am hoping it ships in a couple days which is what Wolf indicates on their website. Tomorrow I will spend some time trying to plot out what relays power what system. It would be nice to make some chips.

Thanks for help to everyone!
 
Want coolant? Run the pump with a static converter.
I'd consider static a pure waste, given the loss in load performance. Its cheap enough to use single-phase coolant pumps, 120, 240, or field-configurable for either voltage.

OK, you want a rotary say. 5 hp would be a good choice as motors of that size are inexpensive to make the converter.

+1 anything smaller is basically best at "dedicated" use to one machine, not as economic, nor as flexible.
 
A thought / question related to running two tools at once: Are the additional motors additive to the overall capacity, or subtractive, or neither?

IOW, I seem to recall reading that if you had a 5 hp converter and used it to start a 3 hp motor, and let them both just idle, I *think* that you would have roughly the equivalent of an 8 hp converter. But what if the second motor is under load ... would you still have 8 hp of capacity to start, say, a 6 hp motor, or would you be "using up" 3 of the 5 hp, leaving only 2 hp of capacity to start another motor? (I realize the math is surely not nearly that simple, what with losses, but let's keep it simple for my poor brain ...)
 
A thought / question related to running two tools at once: Are the additional motors additive to the overall capacity, or subtractive, or neither?

IOW, I seem to recall reading that if you had a 5 hp converter and used it to start a 3 hp motor, and let them both just idle, I *think* that you would have roughly the equivalent of an 8 hp converter. But what if the second motor is under load ... would you still have 8 hp of capacity to start, say, a 6 hp motor, or would you be "using up" 3 of the 5 hp, leaving only 2 hp of capacity to start another motor? (I realize the math is surely not nearly that simple, what with losses, but let's keep it simple for my poor brain ...)

OK. You got it in one.
 








 
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