What's new
What's new

Other brand 5c metric collets for hardinge hlv-h

cupra

Plastic
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Im trying to find a good used hardinge metric 5c collet set for months without any luck .
I think that im stuck to this problem because i have complete the restoration of my hardinge lathe (in fact is a kl-1 not hlv-h)that i bought before almost a year ago
A new hardinge 5c collet set is unaffordable so since i cant found any in used condition since now i decide to go with another brand.
What other brand do you suggest so it will work good with the hardinge collet closer and there are available in europe?
What about uk gloster 5c collet set ?They are selling on ebay a standar 53pcs set for 300 euros or so and a precision set for 1300 .
Have any of you use those collets ?
I just want to be as close to hardinge accuracy and quality without scratcing part trying to insert to a non pre sprung collet or having problems with a semi compatible collet threading .
Any link or offer with used hardinge 5c metric collet will be very much apriciated .
Best regards from greece ,
Kostas
 
I suspect there are some Chinese collets being sold in Europe, possibly without revealing their true origins, so be cautious. Chinese collets might be OK, but they should be cheap, not priced as if they are made in Europe. Crawford is an old English brand, but I don't know where their current collets are made.

I have a nearly complete set of South Bend (USA) 5C metric collets that I bought new back in the 1980's from a South Bend, Indiana area surplus dealer. I seldom need to use them, but have noted that the threads are slightly larger than my Hardinge collets and get tight in the draw bar of one of my Hardinge lathes. They work, but they are not likely to be available any more because production ceased many years ago.

I have some excellent 5C collets that are stamped Germany, but they are also several decades old and have USA dealer names on them, so I do not know the German maker's name.

I think Schaublin makes 5C collets and calls them W31.75. I am sure they are excellent collets, but I have never owned one of the W31.75 type. Being Swiss, they may be more expensive than Hardinge.

Larry
 
I have a full set of Lyndex 5c collets. They run dead true but the problem is like most all 5c collets except Hardinge, they do not release properly. When you open a
hardinge collet the stock is free, any other brand the stock sticks in the collet when it is open.
 
Last edited:
Crawford is an old English brand, but I don't know where their current collets are made.
Last time I had cause to look, Crawford and Pratt-Burnerd were both 600 Group properties, production compartmentalized and rationalized "somehow".

Crawford collets had come into Pratt-Burnerd's hands 1967, merger with holder Arnott & Harrison Engineering.

UK Factories are cited as still operational, Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire:

Pratt Burnerd America

Home to Colchester, Harrison, Pratt Burnerd and Clausing - 6 UK

There are video factory tours on-page, more on You-Tube. "Reading between the lines", not all is made under that roof. Sounds as if chuck bodies come for outside the UK? Other castings as well? How many OTHER components are also bought-in? It is mentioned, for example, that they have no in-house heat-treat capability.

Their main line of business - current epoch workholding portion - seems to be specialized workholding for CNC, including the P-B / Crawford "Gripfast" and "Gripsafe" lines with Optical or RF telemetry I/O between moving spindle and Mothership or hand-held.

Where are THOSE made and heat-treated?

That last part - collet systems that have their own communications bandwidth and address - makes one feel sort of Dinosaur-ish over legacy 5C or PB Multisize, Crawford Multibore alike.
 
Last edited:
I have a full set of Lyndex 5c collets. They run dead true but the problem is like most all 5c collets except Hardinge, they do not release properly. When you open a
hardinge collet the stock is free, any other brand the stock sticks in the collet when it is open.

Does anyone know whether Dunham 5C collets are properly sprung open to release the stock? That is the one thing I hate hate hate about cheap collets, and even mid-price like Lyndex. I have found that old UK Crawford, old Royal made in Germany, and old South Bend collets release well, but current Asian, and even a Maritool 5C hex, not so much.
 
Unless they state where they're made, what they're made from (not the label on the box, or where dropshipped from, and not just "runout" value), all new ones except hardinge are probably sourced in china with mystery materials and manufacture. Most of the new collets don't even have a name stamped on them--this would make it easier to stick in any box, call them anything, and sell for a "mid price".

The Dunham 5Cs are priced like Hardinge, so they had better be good.
 
I must say a big thanks to all of you for the experienced-instant answers .
Paul from zmt(uk) sold me a used metric full set of 5c collets in 0,5mm increments up to 26,5mm (most of them Hardinge).
I now see the difference on the original hardinge collet that are presprung instead other unbranded propably chinese import collets that had included in the set !
Unfortunately hardinge dont make larger than 27mm 5c collet (maybe larger than 27mm 5c collets are not that accurate) so i ll have to go with other brand for a 29 and 30mm 5c collet that i need.
 
Hi Kostas

If you've bought from ZMT (Paul) .... that's the best you're going to get from the UK.

Gloster tooling only have Chinese / Far Eastern stock ... nothing special or quality BUT it's OK for most uses.

I sell a few Hardinge collets on eBay from time to time and equal to Hardinge are Crawford 123 5C collets (Infact Crawford's UK used to supply to Hardinge UK in the 1970's) ... so view eBay UK.

I think your only issue will be shipping costs to Greece.

John :typing:
 
Last edited:
I must say a big thanks to all of you for the experienced-instant answers .
Paul from zmt(uk) sold me a used metric full set of 5c collets in 0,5mm increments up to 26,5mm (most of them Hardinge).
I now see the difference on the original hardinge collet that are presprung instead other unbranded propably chinese import collets that had included in the set !
Unfortunately hardinge dont make larger than 27mm 5c collet (maybe larger than 27mm 5c collets are not that accurate) so i ll have to go with other brand for a 29 and 30mm 5c collet that i need.

Hardinge does offer a 5C-SC collet in 27.0 and 28.0 mm. No worry about accuracy with Hardinge goods, but they will sell "special accuracy" collets for a higher price. Back in the old days, they simply made every collet as close to perfect as possible.

ShopHardinge - 1171727
ShopHardinge - 1171728

Here are the stock size 5C-SC metric round collets. Hardinge will make any size collet in increments of .001 inch by customer order at higher prices. You would have to write to Hardinge for a quote on 29 and 30 mm step chucks.

100107172550005C-SC Collet 25.5MM Round (1.003)$48.00
checkOn.jpg
100107172600005C-SC Collet 26MM Round (1.0236)$48.00
checkOn.jpg
100107172650005C-SC Collet 26.5MM Round (1.043)$48.00
checkOn.jpg
100107172700005C-SC Collet 27MM Round (1.0630)$48.00
checkOn.jpg
100107172800005C-SC Collet 28MM Round (1.1024)$48.00
checkOn.jpg

100307172550005C Stepped Special Accuracy Collet 25.5MM Round (1.004)$91.00
100307172600005C Stepped Special Accuracy Collet 26MM Round (1.023)$91.00
checkOn.jpg
100307172650005C Stepped Special Accuracy Collet 26.5MM Round (1.043)$91.00
100307172700005C Stepped Special Accuracy Collet 27MM Round (1.063)$91.00
100307172800005C Stepped Special Accuracy Collet 28MM Round (1.102)$91.00
checkOn.jpg

I will explain the 5C-SC designation. The largest through the back of the collet round hole in a 5C collet is 1-1/16 inch or 25 mm. Collets that have a larger hole in the front that does not go clear through the back are called step chucks. The SC in the model is short for step chuck. The term goes back over 100 years when what we now call collets were called wire chucks. Hardinge still uses the name step chuck for collets with a stepped bore.

The largest round "order hole" (bore) size step collet in a normal 5C blank collet is 1-1/8 inch or 28 mm. If you order a larger size, it will be in a 2 inch capacity step chuck blank, all hardened and ground. The stock inch sizes are $134.50 each. You can also buy an emergency 5C 2 inch step collet with a soft front and bore it to any size up to 2 inches or 50 mm. They cost $84 each. They come with 3 pins to preload the collet while boring.

https://www.shophardinge.com/product.aspx?partNo=13510010000000

Larry
 
I have a full set of Lyndex 5c collets. They run dead true but the problem is like most all 5c collets except Hardinge, they do not release properly. When you open a
hardinge collet the stock is free, any other brand the stock sticks in the collet when it is open.

I second this. The Hardinge collet has more spring action. But you pay for it.

Also, you want to get a collet with a internal thread in the rear for a collet stop. I modified the tip on mine with a hole so I can insert smaller diameter bars that can extend up through the back of smaller size collet openings.

lathe collet depth stop - Google Search
 
I second this. The Hardinge collet has more spring action. But you pay for it.

Also, you want to get a collet with a internal thread in the rear for a collet stop. I modified the tip on mine with a hole so I can insert smaller diameter bars that can extend up through the back of smaller size collet openings.

lathe collet depth stop - Google Search

Hardinge makes a very good stop for collets without internal threads. The design is old, made before the internal thread was developed, and works well. Used ones are plentiful.

ShopHardinge - 1:sick:

But there is much more flexibility in the stops Hardinge makes for internal threads, including extensions that move the stop back out of the collet body, for long parts.

https://www.shophardinge.com/categories.aspx?catid=34

Larry
 
Hardinge makes a very good stop for collets without internal threads. The design is old, made before the internal thread was developed, and works well. Used ones are plentiful.

ShopHardinge - 119

But there is much more flexibility in the stops Hardinge makes for internal threads, including extensions that move the stop back out of the collet body, for long parts.

https://www.shophardinge.com/categories.aspx?catid=34

Larry

Thanks Larry, I did not know this.

I made that adjustment to my threaded collet stop because the bar diameter of 1/2" is limiting. There are 26 smaller diameter collets than 1/2" in a full set.
 
Thanks Larry, I did not know this.

I made that adjustment to my threaded collet stop because the bar diameter of 1/2" is limiting. There are 26 smaller diameter collets than 1/2" in a full set.

The G10 stop comes with 1/4" and 9/16" inserts that are sold separately and can be machined smaller. Or you can make your own.

ShopHardinge - 127

Hardinge description of the G10:
"One Hardinge Universal Collet Stop set converts Hardinge 5C collets without internal threads into solid stop or spring ejector stop collets. The two solid inserts and the two inserts for the spring ejector housing can be machined to suit varying requirements. The front end of the collet stop body has a standard 1/2"-20 thread for convenient application of other sizes and special shaped stops. The solid inserts or the spring ejector are adjustable in or out in the stop body to arrive at the desired chucking depth. The locking screw and brass plug hold the insert or spring ejector in the predetermined position. Once that is done, merely place the collet stop in the back of the collet and tighten the lock screw. This causes the locking plugs to securely anchor the collet stop inside the collet. Application does not require machining of the collet--the stop is merely placed in the collet."

The stops for internally threaded collets can also be machined smaller and are simple enough that you can make your own in whatever size you want from 1/2-20 threaded rod.

Larry
 
Hi Kostas

If you've bought from ZMT (Paul) .... that's the best you're going to get from the UK.

Gloster tooling only have Chinese / Far Eastern stock ... nothing special or quality BUT it's OK for most uses.

I sell a few Hardinge collets on eBay from time to time and equal to Hardinge are Crawford 123 5C collets (Infact Crawford's UK used to supply to Hardinge UK in the 1970's) ... so view eBay UK.

I think your only issue will be shipping costs to Greece.

John :typing:

Hello john ,
yes i dont regret any $ spend to buy stuff from paul ... he help me a lot during the restoration !!
Shipping to greece from uk is a bit expensive but no that much... if i had to buy from US would be 2,3 times more plus custom fees etc.
Nice to hear that crawford supply hardinge because i have some of this brand 5c collets untested yet.
John please pm your ebay id , would like to save you on my favourite list for a future buy .
 
The G10 stop comes with 1/4" and 9/16" inserts that are sold separately and can be machined smaller. Or you can make your own.

ShopHardinge - 127

Hardinge description of the G10:
"One Hardinge Universal Collet Stop set converts Hardinge 5C collets without internal threads into solid stop or spring ejector stop collets. The two solid inserts and the two inserts for the spring ejector housing can be machined to suit varying requirements. The front end of the collet stop body has a standard 1/2"-20 thread for convenient application of other sizes and special shaped stops. The solid inserts or the spring ejector are adjustable in or out in the stop body to arrive at the desired chucking depth. The locking screw and brass plug hold the insert or spring ejector in the predetermined position. Once that is done, merely place the collet stop in the back of the collet and tighten the lock screw. This causes the locking plugs to securely anchor the collet stop inside the collet. Application does not require machining of the collet--the stop is merely placed in the collet."

The stops for internally threaded collets can also be machined smaller and are simple enough that you can make your own in whatever size you want from 1/2-20 threaded rod.

Larry

Larry ,
really helpful and useful knowledge .
Thank you so much for the infos and links !!

Kostas
 
I've also got some aftermarket internal expansion stops for non-internal threaded collets, but don't know who made them. They seem USA made . The system includes a nylon bushing that expands between 2 cones when the externally accessible end is tightened. The stop rods are not threaded. "IIRC" the rods are 1/2" dia (not in shop at moment, might be 7/16"), often Al, and have a flat side for ss retention through the side at the externally accessible end. So less fine adjustment, but often more convenient to quick position. The user, of course, can turn the business end smaller for small dia. collets; or can make new rods including mushroom heads, out of whatever scrap rod is laying around.

I much prefer the screw in stops for threaded back collets. Have them in several screw sizes and pitches. They give the longest range of adjustment inside the collet & feel the most secure. For small stock, you can even make hollow stops.

2nd are the nylon collar aftermarket stops - good depth and quick to set. Faster to make a mushroom head for larger dia discs than the threaded style. Though I often just face off an Allen bolt, head to the work, for the threaded style.

Last are the Hardinge expansion style due to limited range and need to fiddle with whatever stop end is going to be used since the last time. I've never liked/had a use for a set up with the spring ejector, but some may have a need for that.
For short work, though, the Hardinge style is fine if you get or make some extra tips to turn to custom sizes.

South Bend "Red Stripe" collets (in my limited experience) are as good as Hardinge for accuracy; except they really don't work with Hardinge draw-tubes. They literally made the external threaded ends to a different standard(slightly larger dia.) Causing them to bind in Hardinge equipment unless either the collet or drawtube threads have a lot of wear.

smt
 
South Bend "Red Stripe" collets (in my limited experience) are as good as Hardinge for accuracy; except they really don't work with Hardinge draw-tubes. They literally made the external threaded ends to a different standard(slightly larger dia.) Causing them to bind in Hardinge equipment unless either the collet or drawtube threads have a lot of wear.

smt

Now that just might have been a dirty trick! Look at the reverse. Hardinge collet, larger SB tube threads.

Picture a user of SB collets, SB lathe. He saves his lunch-money, finally buys his first of the legendary Hardinge collets, goes to screw it into place, says:

Damn! Look how sloppy that fits! These things are over-rated. I'll go back to buying the better-made South Bend ones!

And you know South Benders. It WILL be Hardinge as has erred, South Bend cannot.

:)
 
About 35-40 years ago, there was a machinery dealer near South Bend, IN that had thousands of NIB (plastic containers) South Bend collets. I bought a lot of brass SB -3 (about the same as 3C) and steel metric size SB-5 (about the same as 5C) collets. Earlier, I had made a new tube for my Hardinge 5C lever closer, cutting the thread to a good fit on a new Hardinge 5C collet. It worked great until I tried one of those new SB-5 collets, which was a very tight fit in the tube threads. Later, I got some Hardinge 5C hand draw bars and lever closers and found that the SB-5 collets worked fine in them. I replaced the lever closer I had threaded with a Hardinge assembly and the SB-5 collets are no longer a problem.

Some years ago, I bought a 5C collet holder from someone on eBay that was making them himself. I found that the nut was a very sloppy fit on Hardinge collets and figure he had used a 1-1/4-20 tap.

Hardinge published the dimensions of collets in their catalogs. From my 1907 catalog through to one published in the 1960's. the 5C thread is 1.245-20, which should be just a little bit sloppy in a 1-1/4-20 hole. But, starting with my 1980 Hardinge catalogs, the 5C thread is listed as 1.238-20, which is very sloppy in a 1-1/4-20 hole. I had bought a 1-1/4-20 tap years ago and found it worthless for making 5C draw bars. I have managed to get a couple of 1.238-20 taps, but they are very rare and probably have to be ordered as a special.

I have never got out my 1-2" thread mike to try to get actual measurements on various 5C collets, so I can't say what the SB-5, antique Hardinge Cataract No. 5 and very recent Hardinge 5C threads actually measure.

Larry
 








 
Back
Top