Possible busted drawbar in M head

I bought an M-head Round Ram back in October, and stuffed it in the garage. I have an older thread from back in Oct10, and it was brought to my attention that it was missing a drawbar.

Fastforward to last week, and I bought a drawbar off of ebay, it came in tonight. 3/8" thread, looks like an OEM piece. I ran out to try it on the mill, and it won't thread into the chuck. Trying a few flashlights, I finally get a glimse to the top of the chuck, and either the taper that's in there has no inside thread, or the drawbar is busted off. The drawbar hits "bottom" about 1" from the hex engaging the top of the quill.

So... either it does not have a proper taper in there, or the drawbar is busted off.

Any thoughts on how to remove it?

Ideas:

1- make a version of the drawbar with the largest material I can get in there (guessing around 7/16"), and make a "press" that threads onto the quill and attempt to push the chuck out. I worry about stripping the threads on the quill.
2- resist temptation to just put some 7/16" rod in there and beat it out while more creative, less brutish solutions are proposed
3- Beat it out with some heat on the quill..

I gotta tell ya, #2 and #3 are not that attractive to me. I am learning patience, but I never said I was a quick learner

Anybody have any other ideas similar to #1?

Is there a collet / endmill holder / drill chuck arbor installed in the spindle now? If so, mild persuasion with a 3/8" or 7/16" rod from the top should be enough to pop the collet / endmill holder / drill chuck arbor out of the spindle with the broken off section of drawbar.

DO NOT heat the quill.

By "Taper" do you mean collet + tool, or just a tool with a taper?

Either way I can't imagine you would have too much problem hitting the bottom edge where the collet sticks out of the quill with some penetrating oil, spray some down the drawbar tube and try a few light taps with a soft faced hammer on a piece of 7/16" rod or all-thread

Sometimes my collets get stuck in my M-head and all it usually takes is a couple light whacks on the drawbar to remove them

All else fails you can pick up used M-head quills on ebay for cheap

I tried tapping on the chuck, and was rewarded with the chuck separating from the taper. Seems that there's a double tapered pin. A big taper (not sure of size/style) that tapered down, and whatever taper is in the quill, which is supposed to be MT2. I had an 18" 3/8" drive socket extension I put down from the top and tapped on it a few times. Nothing moved but the whole quill. I am apprehensive as to how hard to whack without damaging something else. I know these units are beefy, but I don't want to damage anything in the process.

I am really hoping the previous guy didn't assume it was an MT2 quill, and jammed the wrong taper in there. Is this even possible? This is my first adventure into anything other than R8..

If it is a Morse taper, someone probably just put in a standard drill press, non threaded for drawbar arbor (the part that holds the chuck, and is still in spindle)

You need to block along the side of the spindle nose (not the nose, so arbor can come out) so it can't drop down, and insert a 1/2 in solid bar down spindle hole. Cut bar off about 1 inch above spindle. Tap on that bar with a good sized hammer while rotating spindle (easier on bearings, but it's still hard on them..) It will come out.

The stock system uses the draw bar to force the tooling out. One big wrench to hold pulley nut, and small one turning drawbar counterclockwise. With no threads at bottom, tapping with rod is about all you can do.

Best way would be to disassemble quill, clamp spindle in padded vise jaws, and drive out with above 1/2 in bar. But this disturbs bearings also..

Wrong taper would come out easily, due to narrow contact area.

Make a ring that fit over the chuck arbor and push the spindle down on it against the table so that when you hit it you dont get more force than needed going into the bearings.

Spray loads of Kroil or PB Blaster down the spindle before you start. You can also lift the motor and belt housing off the head and pour thick oil on the bearings to protect them somewhat from brinelling.

I just received these attached penetrating formulas the other day and it looks to be worth trying the acetone/ATF mix.

The MT2 taper arbors & collets were famous for grabbing tightly. Just as famous as the M series drawbars were for snapping off just above the threads.

But it sounds like you have a standard MT2 chuck arbor stuck in there and your biggest hope should be that it didn't spin in the spindle and lock in for that reason.

Don't worry yet. Spinning in the spindle is not as likely as just being TIGHT.

We used to keep a brass rod handy just for occasions like like yours. A 6 inch long aluminum shaft placed in the hole first also works and that you can wail away on if need be w/a longer steel rod.

I agree w/abarnsley on his instructions but if the chuck has already come off, then all you need clear with a block is the lower shank of the taper arbor still in the spindle & go ahead & use the spindle nose.

Good luck & best wishes to you.

Sincerely,

Jim

The other taper would be a #7 B&S about the same size as a#2 MT. In these parts #7 B&S is quite common. To check just take a known #2 MT arbor and with a magic marker draw several lines the lenght of the taper. Insert in spindle and turn arbor while restraining spindle. Is the contact area at the mouth and a half inch or more wide?