Round RAM vs V RAM bolt patterns

RunswScissors · Apr 25, 2016

I have had an 70's M head on my 1942 Round Ram since I bought it 5+ years ago, and a 1J Vram setup on the shelf almost as long. It's time to figure out how to adapt the 1J to the Round Ram.
Why?
1) The M head has a B&S 7 collet and tooling is very limited
2) I got the 1J head and ram for $200, and it's R8.

I have read through several threads all over the web, and most people adapt the J head only to the ram. I have the entire V ram setup, so I'd rather use everything. Pics of what I have.

Here's the butt of the 1J setup, buried on the shelf.

I rough measured the bolt pattern between the 1J and the RR base years ago, and the pattern is different. I'd love to know what the exact measurements are. Anybody??

I figure making an adapter out of a riser might do the job.

Fire away/critique/enlighten. Anybody have experience with this adaptation? I have access to water jets, welders and another mill if needed to make the adapter.

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jccaclimber · Apr 26, 2016

Do you want to be able to rotate the head, or will it always be front and center? It's been a while since I had the column off of one, but if I remember correctly the ram on your 1J had an X shaped piece that hooks on a lip inside the column. On your round ram it looks like the bolts come in from the bottom not the top. In that case I wonder if you could make (or just buy) a short column riser. Then with an extra of the X-shaped piece you could bolt both the column and the new ram assembly to the riser block as normal.

Edit 1: It turns out the X-shaped thing is called the Spider, part # 12060144.
Edit 2: Just realized there was more text below the huge pictures. It sounds like you're on the right path with the riser block. Once you have or make a spider for the M-head bolt pattern it won't matter that they don't match.

RunswScissors · Apr 27, 2016

I'm thinking I may try to find a Round Ram riser and figure out an adapter plate to mount the v ram to the top of the riser. The spider looks like it's used to allow the whole head to swivel, but the Round Ram accomplishes that by using tee bolts in a slot on the underside of the riser.

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maynah · Apr 27, 2016

Here's what my round ram riser looks like.

abarnsley · Apr 28, 2016

Yes you can fab up an adapter.

Round ram to dovetail turret/adapter, was a BP factory made item for several years.

I have seen a few RR to dovetail turrets for sale on ebay.

Too far/heavy to ship for me..

I made a simple adapter that uses RR, and lets a J head bolt on..

Has extra bolts top and bottom, that stiffen the connection.

RR is more spindly than a dovetail ram of course. But the RR head tilt worm is huge, and not a failure point, unlike the J head tilt worm.

Easiest is to just get a RR J Head round ram...

You have an OLD mill, with a tiny table, Don't get too fancy, a newer J head entire mill, will pop up soon enough... You are in the center of used BP country... Used BP's newer than the 40's are VERY common..

RunswScissors · Apr 28, 2016

abarnsley said:
Yes you can fab up an adapter.

Round ram to dovetail turret/adapter, was a BP factory made item for several years.

I have seen a few RR to dovetail turrets for sale on ebay.

Too far/heavy to ship for me..

I made a simple adapter that uses RR, and lets a J head bolt on..

Has extra bolts top and bottom, that stiffen the connection.

RR is more spindly than a dovetail ram of course. But the RR head tilt worm is huge, and not a failure point, unlike the J head tilt worm.

Easiest is to just get a RR J Head round ram...

You have an OLD mill, with a tiny table, Don't get too fancy, a newer J head entire mill, will pop up soon enough... You are in the center of used BP country... Used BP's newer than the 40's are VERY common..

The smaller size is a plus for me. I sought a smaller unit while hunting but point taken. Space for a newer mill with a 48-54" table takes up too much space. I have a 420sqft shop, and I have the RR, a Southbend 16x60, Atlas 10, drill press,Synchrowave 250, 250AMIG, welding bench, engine build bench, 2 pallet racks, small band saw, 12x48 disc belt sander and other implements of de/con-struction. Space is tight. .... I sold my 72" D&K 10ga finger break, and I regret that.

I have considered making a head adapter, but what to do with the rest of the dovetail ram?
I suppose I should see if the tilt mechanism even works on the 1J setup.

I am in Bridgeport country, but the economy is cranking and used units are fetching $6k+ without power feeds.

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Ohio Mike · Apr 28, 2016

Plenty of V ram J head machines out there with 32" tables if that's a concern for you.

JRIowa · Apr 29, 2016

RunswScissors said:
I have a 420sqft shop....Space is tight. .... I sold my 72" D&K 10ga finger break, and I regret that.

Therein lies the heart of the problem. You don't need an adapter, you need a new shop! I've got a 1,000 sq ft shop plus a 1,800 sq ft barn. Want to move to Iowa, it all will be for sale real soon!

JR

RunswScissors · Apr 29, 2016

JRIowa said:
Therein lies the heart of the problem. You don't need an adapter, you need a new shop! I've got a 1,000 sq ft shop plus a 1,800 sq ft barn. Want to move to Iowa, it all will be for sale real soon!
JR

Sure, rub it in.... [emoji12]

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RunswScissors · Apr 29, 2016

Ohio Mike said:
Plenty of V ram J head machines out there with 32" tables if that's a concern for you.

Yes, but there's only 1 in my shop that I have $400 into..

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abarnsley · Apr 30, 2016

400 for a 400 dollar machine... And you should be able to get a V Ram for 8 to 12, and sell the RR.

You will gain 3 inches of Y travel and get a 42 inch table... 6 more inches of travel there...

Spending 800 worth of time, to make an $800 small old mill???

I consider moving a J head mill a trivial operation...

Sea Farmer · Apr 30, 2016

Are all the RR turrets the same diameter, and is that the same as all the V ram turrets? Just curious.

I have a RR with an M head on one end and a J on the other, a bit odd but not unheard of. It has its advantages (and disadvantages).

cinematographer · Aug 4, 2017

Sea Farmer said:
Are all the RR turrets the same diameter, and is that the same as all the V ram turrets? Just curious.

I have a RR with an M head on one end and a J on the other, a bit odd but not unheard of. It has its advantages (and disadvantages).

I was thinking of doing just that. What are the disadvantages?

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