rusty Hardinge lathe

hadi · Jun 5, 2017

I have been looking for a Hardinge precision lathe for many years
but lm from Kuwait and no way to find same here
Suddnly , l found it with scrap dealer they will sell it as a stack of steel .
He asked me $300 approx .
What l want to know , is that lathe can be refurbished easily ? l dont know a lot about how to rebuild the lathe and scraping it . The rust and mud stick on all the way and parts .
is it worth the restoration ?

Thanks and sorry for my poor English

Hadi

L Vanice · Jun 5, 2017

I would not try to restore a 1960 or newer TFB-H in that condition. If it were in the USA, some of the parts could be sold for much more than the asking price. There is probably not much demand for old Hardinge parts in Kuwait.

I know of an identical lathe sold by a General Motors Corp. plant with no rust that is simply too worn out to be worth rebuilding. This model was meant for production work, so most were run until they were too worn to perform and then disposed of. These lathes have a hardened steel bed surface that has to be ground when it is worn. It cannot be scraped. If the bed is reground, the mating cast iron surfaces of the carriage have to be scraped.

Larry

CalG · Jun 5, 2017

hadi said:
View attachment 200384 View attachment 200389

I have been looking for a Hardinge precision lathe for many years
but lm from Kuwait and no way to find same here
Suddnly , l found it with scrap dealer they will sell it as a stack of steel .
He asked me $300 approx .
What l want to know , is that lathe can be refurbished easily ? l dont know a lot about how to rebuild the lathe and scraping it . The rust and mud stick on all the way and parts .
is it worth the restoration ?

Thanks and sorry for my poor English

Hadi

For the cost of less than $300, IF i had space and inclined, I would bring the machine home, Clean it up with oil , flat stones and scotch brite pads, and use it!

It will never be worth less than that.

Restoration of the machine? NO! But often, surface rust appears worse than it is.

rons · Jun 5, 2017

hadi said:
View attachment 200384

If you can straighten out that bend on the right side of the drip pan, then you are a good man. Must have been a pretty good hit.

This might be your chance of a life time.

Peter. · Jun 5, 2017

I'm with CalG, I wouldn't consider it right here but if I were in your position/location I would give serious consideration to attempt restoring it. You can at least rely on help from here and the Yahoo group and spare parts, though not cheap, are usually easily found.

I've seen worse brought back from near death.

rons · Jun 5, 2017

CalG said:
For the cost of less than $300, IF i had space and inclined, I would bring the machine home, Clean it up with oil , flat stones and scotch brite pads, and use it!

It will never be worth less than that.

Restoration of the machine? NO! But often, surface rust appears worse than it is.

What? at 17.6 cents (US) per pound.

spaeth · Jun 5, 2017

hadi,
If you buy it for scrap value it will always be worth scrap value if you go to sell it as is. So no danger of loss except price to get it to your shop. Then I would suggest very carefully taking it apart using lots of
penetrating oil. The spindle bearings are well sealed and probably not rusted. The ways look bad in the photos but may surprise you how well they might clean up. I too have seen machinery in that condition come back to life. Not to the state of brand new but I'd take a worn Hardinge Lathe over some of the new trash on the market today. At least you would learn about refurbishing machine tools and find others in your country who have Hardinge machines too. I'd bet a good many came that way because
of American Military and Oil Company presence.
Good Luck
spaeth

hadi · Jun 5, 2017

L Vanice said:
I would not try to restore a 1960 or newer TFB-H in that condition. If it were in the USA, some of the parts could be sold for much more than the asking price. There is probably not much demand for old Hardinge parts in Kuwait.

I know of an identical lathe sold by a General Motors Corp. plant with no rust that is simply too worn out to be worth rebuilding. This model was meant for production work, so most were run until they were too worn to perform and then disposed of. These lathes have a hardened steel bed surface that has to be ground when it is worn. It cannot be scraped. If the bed is reground, the mating cast iron surfaces of the carriage have to be scraped.

Larry

CalG said:
For the cost of less than $300, IF i had space and inclined, I would bring the machine home, Clean it up with oil , flat stones and scotch brite pads, and use it!

It will never be worth less than that.

Restoration of the machine? NO! But often, surface rust appears worse than it is.

rons said:
If you can straighten out that bend on the right side of the drip pan, then you are a good man. Must have been a pretty good hit.

This might be your chance of a life time.

Peter. said:
I'm with CalG, I wouldn't consider it right here but if I were in your position/location I would give serious consideration to attempt restoring it. You can at least rely on help from here and the Yahoo group and spare parts, though not cheap, are usually easily found.

I've seen worse brought back from near death.

rons said:
What? at 17.6 cents (US) per pound.

spaeth said:
hadi,
If you buy it for scrap value it will always be worth scrap value if you go to sell it as is. So no danger of loss except price to get it to your shop. Then I would suggest very carefully taking it apart using lots of
penetrating oil. The spindle bearings are well sealed and probably not rusted. The ways look bad in the photos but may surprise you how well they might clean up. I too have seen machinery in that condition come back to life. Not to the state of brand new but I'd take a worn Hardinge Lathe over some of the new trash on the market today. At least you would learn about refurbishing machine tools and find others in your country who have Hardinge machines too. I'd bet a good many came that way because
of American Military and Oil Company presence.
Good Luck
spaeth

l blieve that is the first and last seen of Hardinge lathe in my country
There is no machinery shop here except the oil Co lathes and some Bulgarian and Chinese lathes for Auto repairing& maintenance workshops only
and no one like to be a machinist

I would to buy and try to built it as some repliers‘ suggestion and get some knowledge of restoration

Thanks to you .

CalG · Jun 5, 2017

Good fortune in your efforts.

I am a bit envious actually, there is excitement in the clean up and investigation. Expect some disappointments, but it is only metal, right!

rons · Jun 5, 2017

hadi said:
I would to buy and try to built it as some repliers‘ suggestion and get some knowledge of restoration

With some creative setup you might be able to bend back the pan with a car jack.

That model will not do thread cutting. Unless you are ready to do a CNC retrofit.

DrJimmy · Jun 7, 2017

hadi said:
l blieve that is the first and last seen of Hardinge lathe in my country
There is no machinery shop here except the oil Co lathes and some Bulgarian and Chinese lathes for Auto repairing& maintenance workshops only
and no one like to be a machinist

I would to buy and try to built it as some repliers‘ suggestion and get some knowledge of restoration

Thanks to you .

Hadi,
I have nearly an identical copy of that lathe, in working condition. It's not great, but all functions work properly. I also have a lot of other information about the lathe; please let me know if I can lend a hand. These are great machines. Some of the downsides of them: They have a LOT of parts, for each function. Hardinge spared no expense in creating adjustments for everything, caps, locks, etc for every detail. I have read that the spindle is difficult to rebuild, but have not tried this. My machine has the broken swivel under the tool holder: this is common. The tailstock and saddle used Teflon in the guides, so best to loosen (a lot, in your case) the gibs before trying to move them. I would recommend starting with the tailstock because it's easy to understand and get to, and you can assess some of the rust damage. Best wishes, Jim

rons · Jun 7, 2017

No, that is not a good way to start. Look at the spindle and motor first. Try not to spin anything.

1. Install new bearings in the motor. It's not difficult.

2. Pull the spindle and flush the bearings with solvent. Palm in new grease. Examine the taper on the head. Is it usable or does it have to be ground.

3. Then the electrical control box needs to be checked.

4. Buy new belts and see how the thing runs.

If you cannot get through points 1,2,3, and 4 then it doesn't matter how much rust you remove.

hadi · Jun 7, 2017

rons said:
With some creative setup you might be able to bend back the pan with a car jack.

That model will not do thread cutting. Unless you are ready to do a CNC retrofit.

No Thread cutting ? l thought this model can Cutting MM and inch both
That disappointment

hadi · Jun 7, 2017

DrJimmy said:
Hadi,
I have nearly an identical copy of that lathe, in working condition. It's not great, but all functions work properly. I also have a lot of other information about the lathe; please let me know if I can lend a hand. These are great machines. Some of the downsides of them: They have a LOT of parts, for each function. Hardinge spared no expense in creating adjustments for everything, caps, locks, etc for every detail. I have read that the spindle is difficult to rebuild, but have not tried this. My machine has the broken swivel under the tool holder: this is common. The tailstock and saddle used Teflon in the guides, so best to loosen (a lot, in your case) the gibs before trying to move them. I would recommend starting with the tailstock because it's easy to understand and get to, and you can assess some of the rust damage. Best wishes, Jim

I appreciate ur help , l have Hardinge Horizontal mill . l know they built this machine with good parts and carefully . lm thinking to part all the machine first .

hadi · Jun 7, 2017

rons said:
No, that is not a good way to start. Look at the spindle and motor first. Try not to spin anything.

1. Install new bearings in the motor. It's not difficult.

2. Pull the spindle and flush the bearings with solvent. Palm in new grease. Examine the taper on the head. Is it usable or does it have to be ground.

3. Then the electrical control box needs to be checked.

4. Buy new belts and see how the thing runs.

If you cannot get through points 1,2,3, and 4 then it doesn't matter how much rust you remove.

l will save this steps , yes l think that the true way to inspect . Thanks Rons

rons · Jun 7, 2017

hadi said:
No Thread cutting ? l thought this model can Cutting MM and inch both
That disappointment

TFB is an acronym for Turn, Face, Bore. You would have to use threading dies which is not the end of the world. I have threading on my Hardinge but still use taps all the time.

The other thing you can consider:

Buy the lathe and disassemble the whole thing. Build it up with reconditioned parts, whether that means removing rust, new paint, etc. You might have to buy new replacement parts from Hardinge. New spindle bearings might be in order too. Not my favorite way to operate but others do it this way...

apoc_101 · Jun 8, 2017

Nice parts machine, maybe. Actually get it running again nicely? I doubt it.

Jersey John · Jun 8, 2017

Hi Hadi

Knowing Kuwait and your temperatures I would certrainly "Give it a go" and try some restoration ... for US$300 you've nothing to loose and lots to gain!

Just my two cents worth

John

CalG · Jun 8, 2017

NEW spindle bearings would be the very LAST thing on my list. Too costly in case some other significant difficulty shows up.

They can be exchanged at any time in the process or after. And if they are no good, well, you can't hurt them while the rest of the machine is being sorted out.

Plus, They might just need a good cleaning to be every bit good enough for that machine. It's no longer a GEM now, is it?

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