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URGENT - Require Information on the Hardinge TM UM Mill

Jersey John

Jersey John

Stainless
Joined
May 29, 2015
Location
Beccles / Suffolk, United Kingdom
Hi folk

Currenty away in Germany on holiday and have been offered a Hardinge Milling Machine that is "supposed" to be in very good condition.

These Mills are rather rare in Europe, and extremely rare in England. I've only seen two in 25+ years.

I already have a lovely Deckel FP2 but just can't resist the thought of getting this mill.

If anyone can send me specs and more importantly advise me what to look out for or avoid :(

I've got just 24 hours to give a yes or no! and being away is not ideal.

Thanks in anticipation

John:typing:
 
There is no quill if it has a Hardinge vertical head.

Check which collets it uses. I think some were 4c.

Very nice machines, but limited headroom.

Stick to the Deckel..., unless your shop is too big.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The tag on the electrical box will say model TM/UM because the electrics are the same for both model mills. People get confused. You have to look at the central support for the table to tell which model it is.

The TM is a plain horizontal mill with a 5C collet-holding spindle. The UM is the same, but has a swivelling table and can be fitted with a gear box and gear-driven dividing head for spiral cutting. The gear box and universal dividing head is hard to find. Both mills take rare 5C shank arbors with a drive collar for either 7/8" or 1" bore cutters. The Hardinge arbors do not have a keyway for the cutters. Most of the TM and UM mills have power feed for the table.

Hardinge made these mills from around 1939 to around 1974 and there were some design changes along the way. For instance, my TM has one drum switch that does both forward-reverse and high-low. Most have two separate drum switches like the ones on the contemporary lathes.

Bridgeport made a motorized model H vertical head on a bar that fits the overarm hole. The head uses the rare 2VB Hardinge collets. Later, Hardinge designed their own vertical head that was belt driven from the horizontal spindle and took 4C collets. The Bridgeport and Hardinge heads do not have quills, so they are not suited for drilling.

The OEM motors are the same as the 1935-1960 lathe motors. They are two speed, 875 RPM 3/8 HP or 1750 RPM 3/4 HP and the spindle speeds are 110 to 1850 RPM with 60 Hz.

Hardinge made dividing and indexing heads, a 4" vise and various 5C milling tooling for these mills.

Larry

TM-UM-HC ser no.jpgH head H527 1.JPGTM Vert Head 4.jpgHardinge vise 1 2.JPGHardinge vise 2 3.JPG
 
Mark you know I've been hankering over one of these for some time.

... my shop is now twice the size as we've left Jersey now for a really nice place in Eastern England.

It doesn't have a vertical head, it's a horizontal machine but I think?? it may have a tilting table.

John :typing:
 
Hi Larry

As normal a wealth of information forth coming :D thank you!

I can't get near to the machine yet, not even a picture but as I've just said to Stradbash I beleive its got a swivelling table and it is only a horizontal machine.

It has been in regular use and certainly has the basic arbors etc to be fully functional ... I guess I could pick up some tooling / bits from the US given time :)

Thanks again for your posting, I'll let you know how I get on!

KR

John :cheers:
 
I recently bought a used 1955 TM in good condition and have been very pleased with it. The TM has a fixed table and the UM has a table that can swivel a few degrees. The work envelope is small, but great for small parts and hobby machining that I like to do. The motor is 2 speed and small, so not a machine you can making big hogging cuts with. Make sure it comes with an arbor and the spacers for horizontal milling, many times these are missing, and can be expensive if you can find themIMG_3236.jpg. The drawtube and the arbor use 5C collets/connections. They can come with a vertical head as well that uses 4C collets. I got a vertical head with mine, but do not use it. The vertical head it is not good for drilling since it is fixed and the only way to achieve depth of cut is by raising the table. I have a Bridgeport I used for vertical milling. I wanted a small horizontal mill and it fit my needs. Got it at a local auction for $1200. Be sure to check the voltage and phasing required, there are a few versions that I am aware of. Mine was 220V 3 phase which was perfect for me.
 
Hi ME1974

Thank you for your detailed comments on the Mill, I'm fairly sure its a UM and certainly has the arbor and spacers for horizontal milling.

Voltage wise, no problem its UK standard 415v 3Phase which is no issue for me.

Now getting a reasonable picture that I'm liking :)

John :typing:
 
They're a nice useful little mill John , my Haighton (that you saw in my workshop) is based on the um. I believe the hardinge ones have only a small fractional hp motor though (the hsu has a 2hp and could comfortably handle more).

The table feed nuts (antibacklash) wear quickly because of the slotted screw - they shouldn't be difficult to make.

Not having a vertical head is not too much of a problem if you have another mill ( i have not fitted my v head at all yet).

Make sure to grab as many cutters as you can

Bill
 
My UM mill has the serial number on the front of the table between the right oil balls. This one has hardened and ground wear strips on the underside of the table. Larry was that common on late mills or a purchased option? Also when was serial # 31298 made?

John, you can see the serial number on mine towards the end of this video. Right under the bar supporting the tube being cut. The one you will be looking at most certainly will have a screw drive, we heavily modified this one for tube cutting.
CutTubing - YouTube
 
Hi Bill

Thanks very much for your valued input ... I'm just about to move house (nearer to you) and I will certainly be able to accomodate it. I'm liking what I'm hearing so far.

Maybe you'd like to view the HLV-H and Mill(s?) in the New Year!

KR

John :smoking::cheers:
 
John, I hope it's a good one for you. PS, the serial number for mine is stamped on the face of the table, just to the right of the table mid-point. Regards, Larry Snell
 
FredC said:
My UM mill has the serial number on the front of the table between the right oil balls. This one has hardened and ground wear strips on the underside of the table. Larry was that common on late mills or a purchased option? Also when was serial # 31298 made?

John, you can see the serial number on mine towards the end of this video. Right under the bar supporting the tube being cut. The one you will be looking at most certainly will have a screw drive, we heavily modified this one for tube cutting.
CutTubing - YouTube
Click to expand...

Hi Fred ... Thanks very much for your valued input, nice set-up! Looking at Larry's serial numbers / years ... yours looks like a 1964 ;)

John:typing:
 
The hardinge miller is a poor man's deckel.

Don't bother fitting it with a vertical head of any sort, you can do most any job on it if you simply
think 'sideways.' If you try to fit a B'port M head on it without raising the center of the head boss above
the center of the overarm support, you will run out of headroom FAST.

I own an M head for mine, and I NEVER use it.

These come in more or less two flavors, steel dial (older) or white dial. A very ugly one:

Nshop3.jpg


How ugly was it? When I bought it the cranks were made of REBAR. Rolled rebar with rebar spokes.

It's been a solid member of my shop for over 20 years.
 
Loved mine when I had it but the table feed is a joke. X only and one direction only unless you twist the belt intro a figure 8.

Teryk
 
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