Why are Hardinge HLV-H with inch metric thread box and dual scales called HLV-EM ?

[Milacron]

I ask this because I just happened to be looking thru a mid 1990's Hardinge sales brochure last night and noticed for the first time that Hardinge themselves called the inch metric version the HLV-DR !

I presume the "EM" comes from 'English / Metric" but here again Hardinge themselves mostly mentions "Inch / metric" in referring the the HLV-DR model. Although there is a mention of "English threads" in there somewhere, the term "inch threads" is way more prevalent. Hence, even if "EM" was a owner conjured up slang, one would think it would be the "IM" model, not "EM".

Bottom line is I don't recall ever seeing a used HLV-DR for sale....and yet that is what it actually is if it has metric thread capability.

Theories ?


http://www.sterlingmachinery.com/db... lathe toolroom production lathe brochure.pdf

 

[Davis In SC]

My "dearly departed" Hardinge was sold as an HLV-DR.. Came from the factory with Inch graduated dials, inch/metric threading, and an Accurite DRO. DRO was the higher end on that would store tool numbers, etc. I purchased it around 1994.

 

[L Vanice]

The 1982 catalog shows the HLV-EM "English/Metric" lathe (no DRO).

The 1992 catalog (copyright 1988) shows the HLV-DR "Inch/Metric" lathe with DRO as standard equipment.

Other than the DRO, the HLV-DR seems to be very similar to the HLV-EM lathe. But the DR dials are different from the E/M dials, which had a sliding mask so you only saw one scale at a time.

Larry

 

[Milacron]

The 1982 catalog shows the HLV-EM "English/Metric" lathe (no DRO).

The 1992 catalog (copyright 1988) shows the HLV-DR "Inch/Metric" lathe with DRO as standard equipment.

Larry

View attachment 196717View attachment 196718View attachment 196719

Ah, that explains it....a marketing dweeb wanted to stress the "DRO" aspect at some point, apparently. Kinda dumb...should have named it the HLV-EM-DR or such..... or gone hog wild like Brother and renamed it something folks can sink their teeth into like the "Speedio"....except here, the "Tool Master" or such would be more tasteful

 

[L Vanice]

Larry, thank you. My mid-80's "E/M" has the later glass covers on the dual-reading dials, and has dual-reading dials on all the dials (and had mounts for a DRO). Sometime thereafter, they took the dual reading dials off of the carriage and cross-slide, perhaps then only offering with a DRO, and became the "DR" (digital readout)..cheers.

Note the 4th picture, from the 1988/1992 catalog, shows the dual dials on the HLV-DR lathe. If you had a DR with inch-only dials, maybe it was modified by someone, or special ordered.

Larry

 

[L Vanice]

Thanks for pointing that out. The catalog does indeed say the HLV-DR dual dials are only on the tailstock and compound slide. And the HLV-EM catalog says all the feed screws and the carriage feed have dual dials.

Larry

 

[morsetaper2]

So what does the "H" stand for (at end) when referring to the HLV-H ?

 

[dkmc]

If Hardinge was marketing a Corvette, it would be called the "model c-582q843bkx car"...

When I worked there late 70's-early 80's I tried for awhile to
figure out the "why" of the machine model designations.
Then I gave up. It all never made any sense to me.
Beyond that, in house they used different (slang?) to refer to the various models, "K" and "KH" I think were some designations.
No idea where a "K" letter would fit in with a Lathe...
Made by a company named HARDINGE.

or gone hog wild like Brother and renamed it something folks can sink their teeth into like the "Speedio"....except here, the "Tool Master" or such would be more tasteful

Ironically, "Tool Master" most likely would NOT have been considered, as they at one point built a manual vertical mill that they were accused of copying the design by Cincinnati. Cincinnati claimed it was a copy or very similar in some design aspects to their Tool Master milling machine. Not sure if Cincinnati threatened a lawsuit, but the story I heard was they only built a few before the project was scrapped. There were a couple in house, used in the Customer Dept. that survived the dumpster, and were even sold at the auction several years ago.

Maybe Larry knows about this.
Maybe I got it all wrong and am FOS.
The one guy, (possibly the last one) that did know the intimate details passed away a couple weeks ago.

 

[Davis In SC]

If Hardinge was marketing a Corvette, it would be called the "model c-582q843bkx car"...

I gotta 94 Vette I'll trade for a 94 HLV-H...

 

[Monarchist]

So what does the "H" stand for (at end) when referring to the HLV-H ?

By no means a Hardinge mavin, here - but perhaps we can wake on who is up.



Was that one of the Hardinge with Handlever feed, perchance?

 

[Milacron]

By no means a Hardinge mavin, here - but perhaps we can wake on who is up.



Was that one of the Hardinge with Handlever feed, perchance?

My guess might be "hardened", as the previous HLV had normal ways which were notorious for wearing out near the headstock. But as an aside, even the hardened steel ways can wear unevenly also, just takes way more use to do so.

 

[Monarchist]

My guess might be "hardened", as the previous HLV had normal ways which were notorious for wearing out near the headstock. But as an aside, even the hardened steel ways can wear unevenly also, just takes way more use to do so.

That makes sense. Which pretty much rules it out.

Hardinge seems to have never done anything much at all the way the rest of the world wudda done or expected them to do it.

Their concepts worked well enough to dominate, even be copied more than argued over. Hard to class that as "wrong" when they made such a good go of it for as long as they did.

Still.. it always seemed as if they'd installed their own feet on the off legs, just to prove they could walk faster and command a higher price for doing it that way, after all.

 

[Tom]

The HLV-EM was a dual dial English\metric with inch\metric gearbox machine prior to the HLV-DR. The DR version only came with English dials and inch\metric gearbox, as far as I recall. This was due to the DRO unit being inch\metric switchable. There may have been a few HLV-DR machines that had metric dials but these would have been special order for overseas, not sure if or how many of those we built.

Tom

 

[Mark Rand]

My guess might be "hardened", as the previous HLV had normal ways which were notorious for wearing out near the headstock. But as an aside, even the hardened steel ways can wear unevenly also, just takes way more use to do so.

Just went out to the shop and tried a file on an HLV (no-H) bed, not the one that's on the lathe..

It's definitely hardened, in the region of 50hRC, I'd say. I suspect the bed wear which both this one and the one I'm using had, was caused mainly by the ineffective wipers on the carriage and insufficient use of the way oil pump.

 

[Milacron]

Just went out to the shop and tried a file on an HLV (no-H) bed, not the one that's on the lathe..

It's definitely hardened, in the region of 50hRC, I'd say. I suspect the bed wear which both this one and the one I'm using had, was caused mainly by the ineffective wipers on the carriage and insufficient use of the way oil pump.

That is interesting.....just I have never seen an HLV that was not worn unacceptably near the headstock ways....but then again I've only see in real life perhaps five of them total, so maybe I saw the unlucky five.

 

[Milacron]

The HLV-EM was a dual dial English\metric with inch\metric gearbox machine prior to the HLV-DR. The DR version only came with English dials and inch\metric gearbox, as far as I recall. This was due to the DRO unit being inch\metric switchable. There may have been a few HLV-DR machines that had metric dials but these would have been special order for overseas, not sure if or how many of those we built.

Tom

I had a Victor EM recently, which is a Hardinge HLV-EM copy, which had dual dials on the cross slide as well as compound, and athough it looked kinda cool that way, usage wise I'd prefer just one dial there as I could sort of feel the gears inside the dials turning....not as smooth action as one dial direct to the screw.

 

[Monarchist]

usage wise I'd prefer just one dial there as I could sort of feel the gears inside the dials turning....not as smooth action as one dial direct to the screw.

Hence my pref for entirely separate lathes, each one 'true to its own race', throughout.

"Our" HBX-360-BC? The one I'm so anxious to pay for? Try-sexual or some such, IIRC.


Probably way more complex an approach than even Hardinge coming off a bad hair day, but worth the journey.

If one is to traffic in weird approaches to things, the French are, after all, a far more experienced lot at taking the blame!

 

[Mark Rand]

That is interesting.....just I have never seen an HLV that was not worn unacceptably near the headstock ways....but then again I've only see in real life perhaps five of them total, so maybe I saw the unlucky five.

Ditto. The one that's now on the lathe had 8 thou of wear before I re-ground it and the 'spare' is worse. The underside of the carriage had more wear than that on the front side. The carriage and apron are quire heavy and very unbaanced on the HLV and HLV-H. I guess the modification of putting a PTFE sheet and oil meters made a big difference to the wear on HLV-H lathes. That and not being 65 years old (in the case of my one) . But if they'd had resilient/felt way wipers instead of a hard steel plate wiper that didn't get adjusted, they may have suffered from less grit intrusion to cause the wear.

My HLV has got the dual dials and I can also feel the 'grittyness' of the gears turning. I've wondered if I could improve it by selective replacement/renewal, but it isn't cost effective for the small irritation it causes. Short of a DRO, it's very handy to have dials that work in inch and metric when needed.

 

[MICK 1958]

My .02,

I have a EM, and when asking about the DR I was told by Hardinge that the DR does not have the masking plates on the dials...

The machine that I have has masking plates on the compound, crossfeed, carriage, and the tailstock.

Hardinge told me that they discontinued that on the DR models...

Mick

 

[Milacron]

My .02,

I have a EM, and when asking about the DR I was told by Hardinge that the DR does not have the masking plates on the dials...

The machine that I have has masking plates on the compound, crossfeed, carriage, and the tailstock.

Hardinge told me that they discontinued that on the DR models...

Mick

As soon as I figure out what a "masking plate" is I'll offer some brilliant insight