Thread: Compare Feeler 618 to Hardinge

However, I believe you can still order new 10ee, which I believe is a better machine anyway.

Probably true, but when did anyone actually last do so? IIRC United Airlines was the last, some few years ago. Apart from that, I suspect that the true manual machine is doomed even for one off jobs in the current production environment.

Take a look at the 618e.

I did. If I had to earn a living from using a toolroom lathe, I think that the electronics would have me reaching for a chequebook.

Come on guys, I had no intention of starting a war in the UK.

Weren't you, Tom

Regards, Jim

T. Overeynder,

This may be just the info. your after!

http://www.lathes.co.uk/feeler/


Murf

I'm the guy that bought the $4500 Feeler on Ebay. I didn't get pics of the ways till after I bought it. They look bad. They tell me theres a sucker being born every minute. It should be delivered in the next 2 weeks. I've always wanted a 5-C collet machine to make cores for the plastic injection molds I make. While it's not the pristine wall flower Hardinge I wish it was , I think it will be a nice addition to my shop. Being self-annoyed I have to buy bargin, used equipment. After 31 years in the biz I realize that it's the monkey turning the dials that makes good parts, not the machine. So I expect to have do a little TLC with it ,which is the most fun part of the deal anyway and hope to have a good servicable machine in the end. I've given up on getting a "real one" cause of the higher prices they go for. So for now just call me a Hardinge wanna-be . Rob in Walla Walla, WA

I own a Feeler 618. I have had it for about 3 years and it has not let me down one bit. It is an 87-89 model and I had the opportunity to go inspect it before purchasing.
I put my .0001 Starrett indicator and tested out the machine before I purchased it and it passed with flying colors.
Tom came by my shop while he was in town so he got a close look at the machine and hearing it run. He has probably worked with an HLV more than I have. The HLV is probably a little bit nicer in the fit and finish. But I really can't tell the difference of the parts coming off of it. I do not know how the Feeler and Hardinge would compare over time in a situation where it is used a lot. Maybe Hardinge might lead the way but I don't know for sure.

Before this machine I had a Schaublin 102 and I know you can't compare the 2 machines but I would not give up the Feeler if you gave me a brand new 102.
I hope your lathe end up being a good machine because the Feelers are capable of doing very good work.

It might be informative to post a list of which machines are Feelers and which are Sharps.

Or, if not known, then what "street name" was associated with the clone.

("Your Name Here" is one brand I have seen ... LOL).

Both started in the same plant, and diverged from there.

Cyclematic is perhaps the most advanced of the two.

Wilton, Grizzly, Feeler, Sharp and Victor are five brands which I know to be made in one of the two Taiwan plants which currently manufacture HLV-H clones.

(Six, if you count "Your Name Here").

I've worked on a Sharp, briefly, and my impression was it was every bit as good as a Hardinge.

Oh, it was an Imperial-metric Sharp.

Very nice.

I cant wait for Robs Feeler to arrive [img]smile.gif[/img] I have been wanting to check them out.
As far as manual machines go, the local National Lab still finds thier EEs very usefull for the one off parts they do.
When the last old guys retire that can run them, I will be trying to get another one.

Before this machine I had a Schaublin 102 and I know you can't compare the 2 machines but I would not give up the Feeler if you gave me a brand new 102.

1. Which 102 ? The one that "sort of" compares to an HLV-H, the 102N-VM or the one that the vast majority of folks have.. the "regular" 102N that has no power feeds or threading, etc ??

2. Schaublin 125 is more apples to apples comparison to Hardinge HLV-H.

3. Most folks giving away brand new Schaublin 102N's are of a magnanimous nature and would not force you to give up your Feeler as a requirement to receive the Schaublin

Boy those Brits sure put us uncivilized fellas to shame ! They handled that situation with calmness and coolness sadly lacking on most internet posting I ever see. Thanks guy for giving us a lesson on being real grownups.
Now to the Question. I have a 2 year old Sharp clone. I really like it.... However I feel it is 85% as good as a Hardinge. Here is Why:
1) The compound slide is NOT machined near as well as the Hardinge. The cross slide Feels nice and smooth but the compound is not close to the smoothness of the Hardinge.
2) The threading gear train is again not as smooth or easy to operate as the Hardinge.
The Sharp seems to have the nicer of the spindles
quieter and way faster (4K rpm) although the sharp is not ground as well as the Hardinge.
For the price difference I can live with the Sharp.
Now about the 10EE.... I worked in a shop with 2 Hardinges and 2 10EEs. When I got there nobody used the 10EE's the 4 guys there shared the Hardinges.I was a big Hardinge guy but I also don't like to wait for a machine so I started to use the 10EE's . This is my opinion;
If my life was on the line and I had to do a part with boring and threading and some complicated angles, plus or minus a half thou and they needed it in 20 min.I would jump on the Hardinge. IF the time was not a factor and the same part was +-.0002 I would use the 10EE. If it were small- Hardinge. If Big and Stainless- 10EE. Both are great machines. Don's Shaublin would be close to these machines.

Cyclematic is perhaps the most advanced of the two.

Wilton, Grizzly, Feeler, Sharp and Victor are five brands which I know to be made in one of the two Taiwan plants which currently manufacture HLV-H clones.

Somewhere in my files I have a brochure I picked up at the EMO show in Germany many years ago, that is from the company that actually makes the HLV-H clones. Seems like it's called Altech or similar. Show person said they made the clones for Feeler and Sharp, but back then Wilton and Grizzly didn't offer a clone, so dunno if they are also getting theirs from Altech or not.

Fair Friend, which owns the "feeler" name, does not seem to be making hardinge clones any more- they are all cnc now.
Victor makes, according to them, 100 manual lathes a month, none of them HLV style, while most of their production is now cnc.
Cyclematic seems to be the only company I can find currently making a clone.

You could be right about the state of affairs currently Ries, as I just checked www.tami.org and the only company that comes up under the "toolroom lathe" category is Cyclematic

www.tami.org/category/client/l-12.htm

As to Victor, they are now known as Fortune in North America and do offer an HLV-H clone, but it may be a rebadged Cyclematic in reality.

www.fortune-cnc.com/prod/toolroom.htm

(curious the "Royal" nameplate but yet with the same orange sun in the logo as Fortune...sheesh, can't these guys make up their minds what they want to name their machines ? They're worse than a Jewish actor in the 1950's ! )

As I understand it (someday I would love to go there and find out more in person) the taiwan industrial scene is full of family owned, small shops, which cooperate to make larger products.
So an uncle might have the injection molding machines, a cousin a foundry, another cousin the machine shop, and dad has the company that sells the finished product.
So production of something like this model of lathe could get handed around, and as Fair Friend (Feeler) gets more success selling its bigger, more expensive and sophisticated cnc machines, little cousin John, who is just getting started, is given the tooling and he takes it over.

But really, how much demand worldwide do you think there is for a clone of a 75 year old lathe?
Even at 1/5 the price of a real one, I just don think they sell more than a hundred or two of these a month in the whole world. So it wouldnt take a very big shop to supply the needs of the planet.
Especially if the shop is modern, with cnc equipment, which I bet it is.
So it could well be that Cylclematic is enough- one source per planet, thank you very much.

"... the only company that comes up under the "toolroom lathe" category is Cyclematic"

A year or so ago there were two.

The other was something like "New King Manufacturing Co, LTD".

It is my recollection that Feeler and Sharp were produced in separate plants, reflecting their separate corporate ownership ... two brothers or two cousins, or something like that.

There definitely was a family connection, however, and it is indeed possible that both called on the same third parties for some of their components.

I was in Taiwan this past summer with my wife who is Taiwanese. I visited the Cyclematic factory with some of my Taiwanese inlaws. I was very impressed with the whole operation which is very modern. While I was there they were just finishing off 4 or 5 HLV-EM clones for the Israeli government. They seem to make about a half-dozen at a time to order. The quality of workmanship and the dedication of the president, who is very educated and who started the company, is very impressive. He takes great pride in his lathes which I think are his only product.
I brought a few accessories that he said would fit my HLV-EM. Of course they were much cheaper than the Hardinge ones.
If I did not already have a Hardinge, I would very seriously consider thier electronic version(no gears for threading).
Jay