Hardinge mills price?
I need help pricing some machine tools for a estate (kind of) sale. First is a Hardinge TM/UM vertical & horizontal milling machine in excellent condition. Well tooled plus lots of endmills. Second mill is a Hardinge horizontal mill. Again in excellent condition with tooling. Third is a surface grinder. I need to get a make and model info. I'm doing this via phone and e-mail messages for an old family friend. His father in law (machinist and gunsmith) has had a stroke. He can't tell the family anything about the machines in his shop and they have decided to sell of his machine tools and equipment. So they contacted me. The machines are located in the St. Louis area. I can post pictures but unsure of posting here. I'll put a ad in the for sale section once I figure out pricing.
Any ideas what a good market price is for these right now? They are in no hurry.
Picture of the TM/UM
Picture of the horizontal. I've got more pictures of each machine.
I am interested in the mill.
The Hardinge TM and the UM mill are wonderful machines .
Originally Posted by gi_984
The pixs show that this is a "white dial " vintage machines .
The vertical head is a nice feature.
If you have the horizontal arbor support and arbors that's a good too.
The selling value is about $1,800 to $2,500
The UM mill if it has the gear box that attaches to the end of the table and the dividing head selling at $3,000 up to $4,000
Sadly..I had helped too many times to rid families of the machinery that owners could no longer enjoy their shop.
Do your best.
You can go on "Hardinge Mill"Yahoo group.
Post a "for sale"
The first pic is a UM. The second is a TM. The UM has a table that can swivel while the TMs can't. He has a vertical head on the UM and has the overarm and horiz arbor on the TM. They can all be interchanged. The UM is the slightly more desirable machine. Yours both have the later ivory colored dials (a desireable feature but I don't know if anyone gets more money for them.)
As to value: I picked up a TM w/ vert head for $300 ~2yrs ago (that was a no-brainer deal though the guy before me passed on it). There was a PM member in NY (ferrousantiqous) who sold a UM (no vert IIRC) for $500 IIRC (fair deal). But I've seen them bid to $1000 on rare ocassion. It all depends on demand in your geographic area. The guys who ask way over $1k never seem to sell them here. Its a 'cute' mill, and hardinge is a very good name, but it takes a awful lot of floor footprint for the work envelope it has. The base is huge (and HEAVY!) and a short table bridgeport can do more work faster in the same amount of floor space. IMO, you can prob get $1k for the UM w/ vert head and about 1/2 that for the TM. If you have a spare horiz arbor and overarm for the UM you can probably get a little bit more. I don't know if your area affects the price up or down.
These are of the vertical head mill.
I agree with smdubovsky on the model nomenclature and differentiation. If you provide the serial numbers (found on front face of the table) they can be easily dated although that will not affect value significantly. Both are mid 50s or newer with the UM being the most recent based on the side mounted electrical box. Mechanically, TM/UMs changed very little from their beginnings in the lathe 30s until the end of production in the late 70s. Most had single voltage 3 phase motors, many of them 440V which may lower the value a bit for many prospective buyers. Original tooling, such as overarm and arbors are relatively scarce so ensure that any which exist are identified and are kept with their respective machines.
Tim: I tried calling. Thank you.
One of the important things to realize here is that the vertical head is only an attachment
on the basic horizontal machine. The two machines being shown in the photos are really
pretty much the exact same machine. You could put the vertical head on the other machine
if you wanted.
Both of these are fairly late model white dial machines and seem to be in very good shape.
One way to market these would be to sell the vertical head separately, and the two horizontal
milling machines by themselves. The hardinge vertical heads are nice, but somebody might
want to buy only the milling machine as a horizontal. There are, I suspect, a lot of folks out
there who already have a UM or TM and would be interested in the vertical head alone.
I also had a pang of regret knowing that the present owner is in a situation where he cannot
use them or even help sell them. You are a true friend helping him out. Good luck.
Thanks to everyone for the information so far. And yes, it is sad to see a guy who was a talented machinist for years as a shadow of his former self. Very respected ember of the community and his church. I've attached some additional pictures of the horizontal mill. More pictures are coming for the additional pieces.
I have inspected both machines.The Vertical machine is in excellent condition. It also includes the over-arm
and an arbor. The paint on the vertical attachment almost looks factory. The horizontal machine is in
good condition. It currently has a large slitting saw on the arbor. I helped the seller find the s/n's on both
machines. They are now available if anyone needs to know.
I sold my UM for $1,100 about 3 years ago, and it took a little while to sell it here in central PA. It had a Bridgeport vertical head, an attached gantry to hold the vertical head when using the machine horizontally, some collets for the BP head, the horizontal overarm with an arbor, and some milling cutters, but no vise. It was in equally good looking condition to the one in your photos and had about 0.020" backlash on the table.
Originally Posted by gi_984
Look at this UM on eBay with a $999 start price, one bid and three days to go. It has a bunch of rare tooling (gear box and gears, swivel base for div. head, vert. head, etc.).
By the way, the model name confusion is caused by Hardinge stamping Model TM/UM on the electrical box. The box works on either model.
I sold one of my UMs a couple years ago for $1300. It was an older machine but I had reconditioned it. And no tooling.
If that eBay machine sells for $999 or something near there, that will be a sweet deal with all the accessories. All you would need is the powered dividing head. Gary R.
The mills are in excellent condition. That one on e-bay looks a bit "rough."
Looks have nothing to do w/ it. A good cleaning (and possibly another coat of paint) and they all look the same. The mechanical condition is EVERYTHING on a machine tool which is nigh impossible to tell from pics alone (yours or theirs.) Its pretty easy to put lipstick on a pig as they say. The one on ebay will go for good money because of the rare accessories. Its only missing the dividing head afaik (which is worth more than a loaded UM!)
Originally Posted by gi_984
Chris- is there a asking price for this equipment now?
Chris, I am interested in your mills.
Hi David. Not mine, friend of the family. The horizontal mill is sold. The vertical mill is still available. The family would like $2,500. It has the horizontal over arm and arbor plus endmills and collets. If I had room in the shop I would be getting this for myself.